C:SM Command Squads

[DamnedPrince]

I realise that this is an issue of some debate, so I'm curious as to what kinds of builds people take with their C:SM command squads? (taking for granted the debate of whether or not to take them at all)

 

On the one hand, they can be built for close-combat, in which case they can provide close support for their captain, but they start racking in at quite a cost.

 

Alternatively, they have a truly dizzying array of options available to them when it comes to the shooting game, so the issue of whether or not to kit them out for guns (regardless of whether they are supporting a captain or operating independently) becomes an interesting one.

 

And, perhaps most important: how many points should one be willing to sink into them? Are they worth all the shiny equipment they can carry, or are they more effective bare-bones?

[Axagoras]

take quad plas on bikes :P

[thelordcal]

I've been having excellent success running the following :

 

Command Squad - 290

-Power Fist, 4x Plasma Guns, Bikes

 

It works well with my captain who also has a power fist and coupled with my allied rune priest for divination makes a pretty deadly squad. It also serves as an answer to flier at close range.

 

While it is a fair chunk of change, i find it pulls its weight and really brings a lot of fire power. 8 str7 ap2 shots is nothing to sneeze at, especially when they're twin linked.

 

I also run a bike list with speeder, thunder fire, and drop pod support.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

.... 8 str7 ap2 shots is nothing to sneeze at, especially when they're twin linked...

The plasmaguns aren't twin-linked.

[Captain Idaho]

To be fair he was referring to the psychic power Prescience.

 

4 Plasma guns are great and generally end up being the most popular.

[Giga]

I can't help thinking 290 pts is too much for just 5 guys. There just seem to be better ways to get that plasma. For example 4 bikers with 2 plasmaguns, combiplasma + a multimelta attack bike come out at 205 pts and they're also troops.

 

I myself like my quad plasma command squad embarked in a rhino. Comes out at 210 pts and if you're good with target saturation, they should be more than capable of getting into rapid fire range (not to mention they can shoot out of the safety of the rhino).

[Muctar]

The only version of a command squad I've used is quad plasma in a TLAC razorback. They never performed great for me, but maybe that's because they never performed as well as the vindicator they replaced. I would like to be able to fit them in more often to give them a few more attempts.

[DarkGuard]

To be fair he was referring to the psychic power Prescience.

 

4 Plasma guns are great and generally end up being the most popular.

 

Indeed they are, probably because their cheaper points wise and easier to field. If you want to use a combat Command squad these days you have to shell out the points for bikes or a Raider to make them truly viable.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

To be fair he was referring to the psychic power Prescience.

There I go reading too fast again and missing the Allied Runepriest.

 

Full Apologies.

[Polythemus]

I can't help thinking 290 pts is too much for just 5 guys. There just seem to be better ways to get that plasma. For example 4 bikers with 2 plasmaguns, combiplasma + a multimelta attack bike come out at 205 pts and they're also troops.

 

I myself like my quad plasma command squad embarked in a rhino. Comes out at 210 pts and if you're good with target saturation, they should be more than capable of getting into rapid fire range (not to mention they can shoot out of the safety of the rhino).

 

If they stay in the rhino only two can shoot though right? In addition this seems to be a risky proposition as the rhino is likely to go "poof!" if the opposition knows about its contents. Bike delivery may be the better option.

[Polythemus]

Bah! Double post, didnt realize. Sorry.

[Giga]

Hey guys, criticism needed here. :]

 

There's a mini-tournament coming at a local club in a couple weeks and I was thinking of playing an inyoface list by packing lysander + either a killy unit into a drop pod for some 1st turn annoyance + major shooting magnet. The idea is to draw away the opponent's attention while the rest of the army rushes in, and generally try and go for as many kill points as possible. :]

 

Normally, I'd do this with a sternguard squad, but I'm wondering if maybe a command squad might be a better option as they can soak up more shooting due to FNP? What do you guys think?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

In your instance, Giga, I think the Sternguard are better. They counter the FNP durability of the Command Squad with durability in numbers, and the Sternguard benefit from Bolter Drill with all of their special ammo types, while Command Squads typically don't care about bolt weapons -- they want plasmas or meltas or special CCWs.

[awfulawful]

Hey guys, criticism needed here. :]

 

There's a mini-tournament coming at a local club in a couple weeks and I was thinking of playing an inyoface list by packing lysander + either a killy unit into a drop pod for some 1st turn annoyance + major shooting magnet. The idea is to draw away the opponent's attention while the rest of the army rushes in, and generally try and go for as many kill points as possible. :]

 

Normally, I'd do this with a sternguard squad, but I'm wondering if maybe a command squad might be a better option as they can soak up more shooting due to FNP? What do you guys think?

 

FNP isn't what it used to be, and the Command Squad is capped at five bodies. Using Sternguard will let you get more guys into the pod, and Lysander's Bolter Drill rule gives you twin-linked hellfire rounds. Typing those words just makes me happy. Twin-linked hellfire rounds.

[Giga]

I was thinking of using 5-6 sternguard with 4-5 combimeltas. This way they got both great anti-vehicle and reasonable anti-infantry (TL hellfire rounds). I fully expect the sternguard to die on the first turn, but lysander to live long enough to assault something. :]

[thelordcal]

If youre brining Lysander why not just bring the kitchen sink?

 

Stern Guard are a fantastic shooting unit, and they can even hold their own in CC with 2 attacks. Lysander helps soak up wounds and grants them Bolter Drill!!!

 

I'd take 4-5 combi meltas w. 4-5 combi flamers and a sarge with a powerfist to help lysander with the heavy duty killing.

[Giga]

I dunno, I don't really want to put that many points in a unit that's going to have one shooting phase before it gets totally destroyed in the opponent's following turn. 10 sternguard with that many mixed combiweapons seems like a horrible waste tbh, they'd only have a chance to use all those combis if opponent was stupid and placed an important vehicle AND an important infantry unit right next to each other. :S

[thelordcal]

ITs not meant to be a suicide unit at this point. You bring 5 combi meltas because i think they something like a 97% chance of of exploding AV 14.

 

The flamers are to be used as an anti charge option or in the trn after they drop to provide a ton of anti infantry.

 

 

However, i typically just take 10 combi meltas. Shoot 5 on drop then having some back up melta in the backfield is always handy.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

4 meltaguns deal 2.667 hits. Then need 7 on 2D6 to penetrate, so that means 1.556 penetrates. Then another 4+ gives 0.78 explodes results.

 

Of course, sometimes just one gets lucky and that's all you need. The problem is anytime dice-rolls depend 4+ (or 7 on 2D6, rough equivalent) means that observed results can simply swing wildly in one direction or the other (sitting on the 'middle' of the odds like that). Melta sits on top of two of those filters (the Pen roll and Result roll) against AV14.

 

So many people have this notion that meltaguns will autokill AV14, which is just not true. Of course, melta is still by far anyone's best chance against AV14 regardless.

[DarkGuard]

This thread was asking for Command squad load outs. Lets keep it that way. :P

[AlexCrute]

4 x flamers is a very cheap and cheerful unit that makes me smile just thinking about it. Add claws/fists to taste if desired, or not.

[Bannus]

Here is a loadout I had been experimenting with in 5th edition - haven't took it for a spin in 6th yet:

 

Apothecary (bolter)

Company Champion (bolt pistol, power weapon, shield)

Standard Bearer (bolter and power fist or thunder hammer)

Veteran (flamer and bolter)

Veteran (flamer and bolter)

 

Transport (when used) is a Rhino - keeping the unit fairly cheap overall - even though every Veteran has an upgrade.

 

Role: As I envision it, the role of the Command Squad is support. They start off near the center of the army where the standard can provide the most benefit. All models have bolters so they can engage enemy targets out to 24". When they need to reinforce the line, they assist other units by stepping up to assault - the flamers and Champ's bolt pistol soften the target first (Space Marines are so much better shooting than in CC anyway) and the power weapon/power fist help inflict those non-saveable wounds against the target (remember, the Command Squad is not acting alone - but supporting an IC and other units in the same assault) as they wade in.

 

Because they don't have a lot of "bling", they don't necessary attract much attention (like Deathstar units tend to do), but can still do a reasonable job when required to.

[War Angel]

That's a really nice concept, something I could see myself using in a list, perhaps modified however. Do you think the same principles would work if you were to replace the flamers with plasma guns? It would lose its anti horde but if you know you're fighting power armored enemy's then you wouldn't be hurting for the flamers.

 

Either way, I like the fluffyness of the squad while still making it somewhat shooty (which is what marines do best)

[Bannus]

Yes, plasma guns would work - but also puts a bit of a 'Deathstar' sign over their heads as those plasma guns are engaging enemy units downfield. At the near-assault, the unit will suffer though because the squad can only fire a few bolt pistols (assuming the plasma guns replace bolters instead of bolt pistols) that won't soften up much before entering close combat. Flamers are equal to or even better than plasma guns against MEqs just prior to assault because of the volume of hits makes up for the armor save.

[AlexCrute]

That's two key points;

1: The best armour a unit can have is a friendly firemagnet nearby, or several.

2: The flamers get more use, without forcing difficult decisions (do I fire the plasmas, or charge to engage? With flamers you do both).