Bikers...why and how?

[Eorek]

As the topic says : I'd like to know what's so awesome about bikers.

Sure i can see their strengths, but i can also see thier weakness being; quite few attacks, not super shooty(just gloryfied boltguns really), high point cost etc.

Personally i don't think they make up for their weakness enough to be an auto include (some people seem to tailor their list this way). As i said: i fail to see what's so massively good about em.

 

The roles i can see for bikers is being a khorne lords retinue,an express melta delivery unit or being an fast outflanking unit together with a slaanesh steed lord/ sorcerer.

 

Also:how do you guys run your bikes? All marks/icons makes sense apart from the tzeentch ones, how big units and it what weaponry? (Do you switch the combi bolter or cc wep for specialist weapons?). And what purpose do they serve?

 

I really wanna convince myself to use them... But there just seems to be other more worthwhile units to spend your points on.

[Brother Nihm]

Sure i can see their strengths, but i can also see thier weakness being; quite few attacks

What is a few attacks?

Their price has gone way down making them better than Raptors in most situations.

 

Also remember that they have bolters/special weapons which they can fire AND you can give them feel no pain.

[Minsc]

Raptors are quite good this edition, and Bikers are Raptors +1.

 

They're good because they are very durable and very fast for their pointcost. Marks/Icons gives plenty of options, even if MoN or MoS+IoS seems to be the most common.

They might not be the most killy unit in our codex, but non-Khorne Bikers still have 3 attacks each on the charge, + HoW, which is far from bad.

They can also rapid-fire their bolters (and meltas/plasmas) before charging, for some additional kills.

 

They don't even need a IC in them in order to be effective, but they are as you pointed out a great escort unit for any Lord/Sorcerer on Bike.

[Hellrender]

That is it mainly, they are SUPER points efficient. for 20 points you get a CSM, with Ultragrit, +1T, increased movement, easier acces to special weapons. that is a lot you get for just 7 points more then your standard CSM :eek

[techsoldaten]

As the topic says : I'd like to know what's so awesome about bikers.

Sure i can see their strengths, but i can also see thier weakness being; quite few attacks, not super shooty(just gloryfied boltguns really), high point cost etc.

Personally i don't think they make up for their weakness enough to be an auto include (some people seem to tailor their list this way). As i said: i fail to see what's so massively good about em.

 

The roles i can see for bikers is being a khorne lords retinue,an express melta delivery unit or being an fast outflanking unit together with a slaanesh steed lord/ sorcerer.

 

Also:how do you guys run your bikes? All marks/icons makes sense apart from the tzeentch ones, how big units and it what weaponry? (Do you switch the combi bolter or cc wep for specialist weapons?). And what purpose do they serve?

 

I really wanna convince myself to use them... But there just seems to be other more worthwhile units to spend your points on.

The way I look at it, Bikers are the new Berzerkers + Rhino in this edition, and they can play a lot of other roles as well. Given their high mobility and the rules around bikes in general, they offer a very affordable solution for a lot of different situations. They can be used in the ways you mention, pus a lot of others.

 

To begin with, in terms of points: they are a T5 unit. Comparing them with a unit of T5 CSMs with MoN, it's only one more point per model to get twin-linked bolters, increased mobility, and extra attacks around the charge. You still get grenades and lots of options for upgrades, the only thing you really lose is the ability to get things like Missile Launchers and Lascannons (which few people every use). Sure, they take up a fast attack slot, and you can't have as many of them, but this doesn't seem to be a problem for most people. So there's a pretty big bargain right there.

 

Second, there's what they can do in close combat. They come with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon standard, meaning they are going to get 2 attacks plus 1 on the charge. They also have the Hammer of Wrath rule because they are bikers, potentially giving you a bunch of additional I10 S4 hits the first turn of combat. Aside from Nob Bikers, this makes them some of the hardest units in the game.

 

Third, there are the upgrades. Marks and Icons can dramatically increase the potential for bikers in various roles, I guess I don't really need to go through them but I5, T6, extra attacks or invulnerable saves can really make for an elite unit. A lot of people will say they are toughest with MoN, but I have a lot of success with them using MoS and IoE.

 

But the real advantage to bikers is their versatility. When you start by thinking about them in terms of their advantages, their potential roles become a lot more clear.

 

- If you want a big hurt unit that is going to distract an opponent, 10 Bikers can lay out 10 twin-linked bolter shots and 40 attacks on the charge in the same round before applying the effects of any marks or icons. It's hard for someone to ignore them without paying for it later. Using a mounted Chaos Lord, Sorcerer, MoK, IoW, etc is really just a combat buff to an already dangerous unit.

 

- If you want cc specialists, it's hard to do better under the current Codex. Besides the CSM comparison, 5 bikers are only 5 points more expensive than 5 Berzerkers, they are tougher and have the same number of attacks on the charge. Take flamers to really mess up enemy units in the shooting phase before you charge, or just leave them as is.

 

- If you want a unit of tank hunters, they are going to move faster and be more survivable than Havocs or Chosen. You only need 3 bikers to give them 2 special weapons, which is pretty cheap if you want a dedicated AV unit. Take plasma or meltas for shooting and melta bombs to finish the job.

 

- If you want an escort, they are going to be able to provide a lot of cover to other units moving downfield. I run mine with a biker lord and they get him into assaults more than 90% of the time. They are also great escorts for vehicles, it's hard to justify shooting up a Rhino or a Predator when there are all these bikers coming up alongside it.

 

- If you want a big tarpit that can tie up multiple units, a unit of 10 MoN bikers takes up a lot of space and can stick around for a while. The mathhammer for these guys is outstanding compared with most other things in the Codex except maybe Terminators. It's a lot easier to engage multiple units in cc with bikers because their models naturally spread out pretty far compared with normal infantry. This can be important when you consider how SMs abuse ATSKNF.

 

- If you want a unit that can deny VPs to enemies, their mobility and firepower make them excellent at this task. Roll up in front of an enemy, rapid fire bolters / hit them with flamers, then charge to watch them wither away.

 

- If you want a unit that can hang out in the backfield and counterattack any deepstrikers, Bikers are excellent at getting across the table to mix it up with anything that arrives. Put them in the middle of your side of the board and move flat out to get most places you might need them.

 

- If you want mobile cover, biker models are actually pretty tall and can give Fiends that 25% visibility cover they need to survive. I regularly use them to screen my Defiler, the biker models occupy so much space it's hard to see through them.

 

- If you want a unit that can infiltrate, put them with an HQ option that gets master of deception, or with an HQ unit mounted on a Steed of Slaanesh. This is a great way to screw up an opponent's plans and expose the soft undersides of their forces. 2 infiltrated units of bikers coming from opposite sides of the board can create situations where there is nowhere to go.

 

I like to run mine with MoS and IoE, lead by a Slaanesh CL mounted on a bike carrying the Black Mace and Sigil of Corruption, and use them as a dedicated cc unit. They can strike almost anywhere on the board by turn 3, the T5 and FNP makes them very hard to kill, the high initiative means they win most close combats before opponents get to strike back, and they get a lot of attacks even when they don't get the charge. When they do get the charge, this unit averages around 6 wounds against 10 man MEQ units before they get to strike back. They sometimes also simply wipe out their opponents without an opportunity for them to strike back, it really takes a lot of Marines to stand up to a biker squad on the charge.

 

Their only vulnerability seems to be massed fire and ordinance, the only situations where my bikers have flat out not worked was in games that involve Fire Warriors, Railguns and pie plates. This was more due to my inexperience with tactics for them than any innate advantage to the opponent's army. Also, it is hard to use cover with these guys, they are particularly vulnerable to Focus Fire compared to units with smaller models that can get behind things easier.

[Eorek]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm at some point trying out a bigger unit of bikers together with an IC. It leans towards Slaanesh/ khorne bikers for me rather than nurgle bikers, even though toughness 6 is tempting.

[Xenith]

Sure i can see their strengths: quite a few attacks, not super shooty(twin linked boltguns ), not very high point cost etc.

Personally i don't think they make up for their weakness enough to be an auto include (some people seem to tailor their list this way). As i said: i fail to see what's so massively good about em.But there just seems to be other more worthwhile units to spend your points on.

 

Fixed a couple of things for you.

 

Bikers get 2A base, due to bp+ccw, they also get free MoN for being on bikes, they also get a free 5+ cover save, and get to reroll misses with boltguns.

 

They also get to rapid fire and then assault.

 

Bikers are pretty awesome for their points.

[Brother Nihm]

Thanks for the input guys.

I'm at some point trying out a bigger unit of bikers together with an IC. It leans towards Slaanesh/ khorne bikers for me rather than nurgle bikers, even though toughness 6 is tempting.

Point for point, Slaaneshi bikers trump nurgle ones when it comes to durability.

You can find the discussion in this sub-forum.

[Eorek]

Sure i can see their strengths: quite a few attacks, not super shooty(twin linked boltguns ), not very high point cost etc.

Personally i don't think they make up for their weakness enough to be an auto include (some people seem to tailor their list this way). As i said: i fail to see what's so massively good about em.But there just seems to be other more worthwhile units to spend your points on.

 

Fixed a couple of things for you.

 

Bikers get 2A base, due to bp+ccw, they also get free MoN for being on bikes, they also get a free 5+ cover save, and get to reroll misses with boltguns.

 

They also get to rapid fire and then assault.

 

Bikers are pretty awesome for their points.

 

Well... Compare it to another fast attack choice we have : the helldrake.

 

Harder to down being a flyer(I tend to kill most sky fire units before they start shooting my helldrakes, even if I don't they are quite sturdy)+ it will not die and it's daemon inv save.

Bale flamers will punch way harder than a same point bike squad when it comes to MEQ... torrent making it easier to use aswell.

Does have good anti flyer weaponry.

More versatile at tank hunting(a daemon forge vector strike hurts bigtime. Even more so if you run one with a hades autocannon) a biker needs to hug it's targets with a melta gun more or less.

Faster, sure it needs a bit more planning using a flyer.

 

 

^this is why I find myself often not running bikers. The only things positive thing I find in bikers compared to a helldrake is that they can tarpit your opponent, being a meatshield/support for your HQ and contest enemy objectives. But when comparing point for point killyness I personally prefer the helldrake for my tournament lists so far.

 

But I have not used bikers in a bigger game yet, so it remains to be seen how useful they can be... Though when I faced chaos bikers the other day I didn't get a good impression of em. Just point the right weapons at em.

 

Also: Has anyone tried running a lvl 3 sorc trying to roll for invisibility(telepathy)>endurance(biomancy)? since they already have 5+ from Jink invisibility would make em close to unkillable, and with a perfect roll (both spells...unlikely, but odds are in your favour in getting invis atleast) they would also get feel no pain on top of that.

So you could have a t6 2+ cover and 5+fnp unit rolling around, now that would be scary.

[Brother Nihm]

Yep,

 

That strategy is also being discussed in the Sorceror thread. :yes:

[techsoldaten]

Well... Compare it to another fast attack choice we have : the helldrake.

 

Harder to down being a flyer(I tend to kill most sky fire units before they start shooting my helldrakes, even if I don't they are quite sturdy)+ it will not die and it's daemon inv save.

Bale flamers will punch way harder than a same point bike squad when it comes to MEQ... torrent making it easier to use aswell.

Does have good anti flyer weaponry.

More versatile at tank hunting(a daemon forge vector strike hurts bigtime. Even more so if you run one with a hades autocannon) a biker needs to hug it's targets with a melta gun more or less.

Faster, sure it needs a bit more planning using a flyer.

 

^this is why I find myself often not running bikers. The only things positive thing I find in bikers compared to a helldrake is that they can tarpit your opponent, being a meatshield/support for your HQ and contest enemy objectives. But when comparing point for point killyness I personally prefer the helldrake for my tournament lists so far.

Yeah, it's the fact you need to choose between bikers and Heldrakes that makes the choice harder in smaller games. At 2000+ points, it gets a little easier with the 6 FA slots and all.

 

The big thing bikers have going for them over Heldrakes is the attacks. I run them in squads of 5 and 10, alternately, and with MOS and they can really dish out a lot of wounds on the charge. HoW attacks +1 for the charge +1 for the pistol +1 for the CC weapon. 10 man squads regularly chew through MEQ in a single turn, especially when upgraded with flamers.

 

Heldrakes cannot do that, they can't really focus all their attacks on a single squad. Even when the Heldrake is really tearing up opponents, it leaves a lot of guns on the table.

 

Another thing, I typically get the IoE with my bikers, which gives FNP and is almost as good as It Will Not Die in terms of raw survivability.

[nurglez]

More versatile at tank hunting(a daemon forge vector strike hurts bigtime. Even more so if you run one with a hades autocannon)

 

You can't daemon forge the vector strike, as daemon forge is only activated at the start of the shooting phase, or assault phase :(

 

still, D3+1 auto hitting str 7 hits are pretty decent vs all flyers apart from armour 12, and they still have a chance to mess them up (once I managed to get 3 hits, which became 1 penetrating and 2 glancing, poor vendetta... ;) ).

 

While bikes may have less range then a Heldrake, they can tie an enemy unit up in assault, and can get close enough to use melta guns effectively vs units you need them too.

 

I'm yet to use bikes, and don't know if I will for awhile, but I see their strengths :)

[Eorek]

More versatile at tank hunting(a daemon forge vector strike hurts bigtime. Even more so if you run one with a hades autocannon)

 

You can't daemon forge the vector strike, as daemon forge is only activated at the start of the shooting phase, or assault phase :lol:

 

Hmph, missed/ forgot that part then :/

 

Still, vectorstrike is great for downing flyers. The hades even more so... And yes, at 1999p games(atleast in my gaming community) you'll want to get maxxed out on skyfire, hence using bikes removes 1 drake=bad

[Minsc]

10 Slaanesh-Bikers with Icon and 2 meltaguns.

5 Nurgle Spawns.

1 Heldrake with Baleflamer.

 

That's my go-to FA, and it works wonders.

[Eorek]

10 Slaanesh-Bikers with Icon and 2 meltaguns.

5 Nurgle Spawns.

1 Heldrake with Baleflamer.

 

That's my go-to FA, and it works wonders.

 

Yea, nurgle spawns is also one of the things I find tempting to try out. fast, can take alot of dakka and gets alot of attacks on the charge... sorta unreliable though

[Azekai]

sorta unreliable though

If their attacks are unreliable, their durability is anything but.

[Eorek]

yeye, that's what I meant.

[the jeske]

sorta unreliable though

If their attacks are unreliable, their durability is anything but.

 

against which army do you need tar pit units , and which of those armies cant kill spawn ?

[Eorek]

sorta unreliable though

If their attacks are unreliable, their durability is anything but.

 

against which army do you need tar pit units , and which of those armies cant kill spawn ?

 

Seen spawn units split charge alot of nid infantry binding em up in melée, Seen spawns tie up alot of a IG gun line...

 

But no, spawns ain't really a tarpit unit... they kill stuff too quickly:P they are unreliable... not worthless at killing stuff.

[Lepaca]

Also, what weapons do you guys prefer on bigger CC oriented bike squads? Plasma or flamers?

[Minsc]

Also, what weapons do you guys prefer on bigger CC oriented bike squads? Plasma or flamers?

 

Meltas.

 

Pop the transport, charge the content.

[Lepaca]

Also, what weapons do you guys prefer on bigger CC oriented bike squads? Plasma or flamers?

 

Meltas.

 

Pop the transport, charge the content.

 

I thougth you could only charge what you shot at?

[Excessus]

Also, what weapons do you guys prefer on bigger CC oriented bike squads? Plasma or flamers?

 

Meltas.

 

Pop the transport, charge the content.

 

I thougth you could only charge what you shot at?

It's the same as it was in 5th. If you shoot the transport you can assault the troops inside if it is destroyed...

[Eorek]

Also, what weapons do you guys prefer on bigger CC oriented bike squads? Plasma or flamers?

 

Plasma for monster hunting, got enough armour killers in my army as it is.

 

Though I'd still grab meltas instead of flamers(decided to run either axe lord with khorne bikers or slaanesh bikers with sorcerer...both with brand. making flamers sorta overkill)

[Bat33.1]

Do you replace the twin linked bolter or ccw when taking melta or plasma?