techsoldaten Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It seems like fast attack units have the biggest impact on army design and playstyle in the 6th edition Chaos Codex. With the buffs to bikers, introduction of the Heldrake and Warp Talons, improvements to spawn and raptors, there are a lot of discussions going on for how to make the most out of these units. The question is: what do you use for your fast attack slots and why? Please provide examples of how they have worked out for you in a game, and / or how they have failed spectacularly. If you don't like to use any Fast Attack units in your army, please feel free to chime in and tell us why not. I have my preferences as well, and will chime in after there are some other answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinners Red Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I use Raptors and Bikers. Raptors because of modeling and fluff, as well as the fact that they are jump infantry and you can reroll your charge length (if using the jump pack to assault) and get HoW. This suits me, as my play involves me assaulting things. I guess I kinda see bikers as a different type of Raptor. Can't jump over things though, and can move further than a Raptor if you need them too. The special rules with bikes are a bonus, and they are cheap in the codex. Warp Talons, I like the fluff, but they seem too delicate for my lack of patience, the unit is a specialized tool that I don't think I could use properly. Though I have never tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I wouldn't mind getting a Heldrake, but money is soemthing I have to take into account. So since a box of five Raptors is cheaper than buying four Bikers(using one to convert into the Lord that I would put with them), so for my 1000 points list, I will be using Raptors with a Raptor lord that I feel has been turned into-how did 4th edition put it?-a rampaging meteor of destruction. Bring on the pain baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
empchildrenbob Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Spawn are really good. They are a very in your face unit that your opponent will have to try and kill Or else next turn they will be on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attomsk Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Biker squad and 1 to 2 helldrakes for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I use bikers . raptors are not good enough , talons are in the same slot [cost/what they suppose to do not actual slot] as terminators . spawns got better which is awesome , but I need anti av13+ then for fun stuff. If I want flyers I would rather ally in IG or take chaos demons ally , so no drakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Bikers for me, but I am considering getting some spawn for the sheer lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I have run Chaos spawn, as many as two units of 5 in a 1500 point list. I use them to screen the forces behind them, and to hunt scoring troops or their low AV transports. I love their speed and the special goodies they get from being beasts. So far, they draw a lot of fire (and take a lot of fire to kill off) and have reliably opened Rhinos and Razorbacks. At higher points values, I intend to run them with the mark of Nurgle to prevent them from being doubled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Heldrake w/Baleflaner x 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Strange, I just wrote this in a different topic...anyway: 10x Slaanesh Bikers /w Powerweapon, Meltabombs, Icon, 2x Meltaguns. 5x Nurgle Spawns. Heldrake with Baleflamer. That's what I usually take. Sometimes the Bikers are Khornate or Nurgle though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 I use bikers exclusively for my fast attack slots. My typical list includes 2 squads of 5, my 'special' list includes 2 squads of 10. I sometimes take them with flamers, and usually take MoS and IoE. Bikers are really the centerpiece of my army. I like them because of the beatstick they carry into charges, Hammer of Wrath plus +1 attack plus 2 close combat attacks is a lot of stuff to deal with. I team them up with a mounted Chaos Lord and his Black Mace to maximize the damage. Occasionally, when I roll for Master of Deception, I infiltrate larger units of them - and achieve outstanding results when I go first. I have some interesting tactics for bikers, involving running them up the left and right sides of the board, while advancing a bunch of troops in Rhinos up the middle. It's been about 80% effective under 6th edition rules, but can break down sometimes in unpredictable ways. The best use of them, for me, is wiping out tactical marines. When I am running 10 of them, I typically ride up in front of a marine unit, fire with 2 flamers, charge, shrug off some overwatch shots because of Feel No Pain, resolve HoW attacks, resolve my attacks, then... get ready to move onto the next unit. About 50% of the time, this wipes out the unit in the first round of cc and I take maybe up to 2 casualties. When I am running 5 of them in each unit, I tend to use them more selectively, going after Devastators, HQ units, Dreadnoughts, scouts, and their xenos equivalents. But the focus is always on hitting hard and moving on, I don't like having them tied up in close combat. The only time they have really failed me was in a battle with Tau, 2 units of 5 plus my biker Chaos Lord were shot up by Fire Warriors in the first round. I made a mistake in placing them so that no part of either unit was ever fully in cover, the bikes were just sticking out too much and each unit was able to take focus fire from several directions. Focus Fire seems to be these guys main weakness, as it's easy to get half the unit behind something. Their models are just a little too long to cover up every part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 10x Slaanesh Bikers /w Powerweapon, Meltabombs, Icon, 2x Meltaguns. You take 10 Bikers? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I currently just use the Helldrake in my FA slot; I only have 1 atm but I want another (but I've promised myself not until I finish painting the first one). I have some bikes but I've not got around to including them in my list as they compete with the Iron warrior Walkers and guns (and more guns), The HellDrake just seems perfect for taking out those large pesky units in cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 10x Slaanesh Bikers /w Powerweapon, Meltabombs, Icon, 2x Meltaguns. You take 10 Bikers? Wow. And I wish I could take more. <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 How big of an army do you play? That's 1, 2, 3... Hold on, let me take my shoes off... 305 points! Okay, well I'll admit that's not as bad as I thought but yikes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Planning on a max of 2 drakes and the third slot goes to whatever happens to be escorting my lord - bikes, spawn or raptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Atleast one helldrake with bale flamer at 1000p and a minimum of 2 baleflamer drakes as 1999. sometimes also adding a third hades one Personally I find bikers overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Debating back and forth between drake with hades for AA firepower or full squad of Slaaneshi Spawns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Until I get my Bikers up to snuff, I'm using Raptors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Validar Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I got the feeling that the heldrake is (by far) the best FA choice... Armor 12 flyer with 5++.... Crazy! I plan on using raptors and warptalons for my Nightlords, but I think the best choice would just be dragon spam, they're pretty much impossible to handle for most armies, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I plan on using raptors and warptalons for my Nightlords, but I think the best choice would just be dragon spam, they're pretty much impossible to handle for most armies, no? Most armies that have problems with dealing with fliers (Wolves, Nids, CSM) will have problems with the drake, yes. But armies with a really strong flyer presence will have little to no problem dealing with it. (Imps and Necrons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 I got the feeling that the heldrake is (by far) the best FA choice... Armor 12 flyer with 5++.... Crazy! I plan on using raptors and warptalons for my Nightlords, but I think the best choice would just be dragon spam, they're pretty much impossible to handle for most armies, no? I actually thought this through before and was convinced it was a bad strategy. At 2000 points, you could do 6 Heldrakes for just over half your points. While they would be hard to kill, I wonder if they are going to have the offensive strength to deal with an opponent who is likely spending the same points on a more effective offense. I like Baleflamers and Autocannons and recognize their role in a well-balanced army, they can only issue so shots per turn. Vector strikes are great with Heldrakes, but they are limited to what you can maneuver over (meaning your opponent has something to say about how you are going to attack). Given that it's impossible to vector strike the unit you are going to shoot (at least I think it is, someone correct me if I am wrong), this means Heldrakes are going to have a hard time putting down units entirely and will have turns where individual drakes can't do much at all. The way I would fight against 6 Heldrakes is to a) go after the opponent's infantry and wipe them out, b/c my troops would have a 2:1 advantage in points on the ground, ;) stick to the sides of the board, force situations where Heldrakes have to fly off for a turn or two in order to deal with their flying rules, and c) max out my FOC with MSU, in order to make it impossible for Heldrakes to target all my units in a single turn. I would probably also get an Aegis defense line or two and man it with a Warpsmith in order to shoot the things down, AV12 is not really that tough against a quad gun. It's not important to shoot down all the drakes, but it is important to disrupt their harassment of my troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Not sold on the model for a hell drake, or flyers in general for 40k (im stuck in my ways a bit, but dont begrudge others using them in the least, even my guard dont like em) so not really looked at that. I run 7 raptors with a flamer, MoS, VotlW, power mace and boon. not finished unit yet so only ran it once as a 6 man, it performed well as a intial threat, but not game changing (small unit low cost invested). Would like to run some spawn in a list, but havent got models yet. 5 with MoN seem very appealing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I got the feeling that the heldrake is (by far) the best FA choice... Armor 12 flyer with 5++.... Crazy! I plan on using raptors and warptalons for my Nightlords, but I think the best choice would just be dragon spam, they're pretty much impossible to handle for most armies, no? I actually thought this through before and was convinced it was a bad strategy. At 2000 points, you could do 6 Heldrakes for just over half your points. While they would be hard to kill, I wonder if they are going to have the offensive strength to deal with an opponent who is likely spending the same points on a more effective offense. I like Baleflamers and Autocannons and recognize their role in a well-balanced army, they can only issue so shots per turn. Vector strikes are great with Heldrakes, but they are limited to what you can maneuver over (meaning your opponent has something to say about how you are going to attack). Given that it's impossible to vector strike the unit you are going to shoot (at least I think it is, someone correct me if I am wrong), this means Heldrakes are going to have a hard time putting down units entirely and will have turns where individual drakes can't do much at all. The way I would fight against 6 Heldrakes is to a) go after the opponent's infantry and wipe them out, b/c my troops would have a 2:1 advantage in points on the ground, B) stick to the sides of the board, force situations where Heldrakes have to fly off for a turn or two in order to deal with their flying rules, and c) max out my FOC with MSU, in order to make it impossible for Heldrakes to target all my units in a single turn. I would probably also get an Aegis defense line or two and man it with a Warpsmith in order to shoot the things down, AV12 is not really that tough against a quad gun. It's not important to shoot down all the drakes, but it is important to disrupt their harassment of my troops. I agree, using more than 4 helldrakes is not really worth it(unless you're playing 3k-ish+ on a big table). However on a normal sized table at 1999+ 3 helldrakes have plenty of space to maneuver around flaming, vector striking and shooting their auto cannon at stuff, still needs some more pre-planning than other units however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I run spawn and raptors planning on adding a helldrake as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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