Azekai Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 So I have been thinking . . . Nurgle chaos forces are quite popular, but there is very little fiction about them. I find this simultaneously disappointing and irritating. We get some appearances as the bad guys here and there, but that is all. Why the neglect? The plague marines that I can remember from Flight of the Eisenstein and our blurb in Index Astartes were not shown as mindless automatons- they were actively mocking their foes; the Death Guard are clearly more than 'zombie marines.' So what gives? Why are we little more than the diseased boogeyman of 40k? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I've always envisaged the Plague Marines being one of the least overtly malevolent Chaos Marines in terms of characterisation. After all, they are not tormenting or murdering their enemies; they are sharing Father Nurgle's bounty with them, gifting them the enlightenment they've been deliberately shrouded from. I imagine they regard themselves as liberators more than anything; paragons of selflessness, refusing to rest whilst so much of humanity flounders and squabbles in the ignorance of hope. I envisage them as being rather joyful in their duties rather than sombre; celebratory, in a bitterly ironic fashion, regarding their enemies with a kind of avuncular pity: "Oh, children, children, why do you run? Do you not realise what we bring? Freedom! Joy beyond measure in Father Nurgle's embrace! Come to us, children, come to us!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242897 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I agree about 90%. I can imagine a lot of normal plaguemarines aren't much more than 'space zombies', that have become so diseased they barely have their wits about them, and only the former astartes in them carries on in battle as it did in life. Much the same as many worshipers of the blood god are so given to that aspect of chaos that they lose themselves to it, blinded by the blood rage. But yeah, we need some characters, because a unit can't operate with all blind nurgle-worshiping fools. It has to have some direction, and we have seen that some of those characters do have a sense of purpose (such as Necrosius, for example) but even there lies little in the way of a storyline from 'our' perspective. By and large, I see more from Nurgle than any other chaos god, so I daresay we are the most popular (maybe second to undivided as a whole, if you were to lump together all of the undivided legions and warbands) yet we get next to nothing in the way of any fictional characterization, as you say. Perhaps it's better this way, as we can openly interpret how they behave as Dammeron does, instead of being locked into the fluff of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I`d always believed Plaque Marines running the whole wide from the warmly loving disease spreading uncle types to zombie like walking shamblers to cynical, bitter survivors who share the "final truth" of eventualy ot and decay having the last word in everything with a sarcastic glee. Actually I`d always imagined my Nurgle Lord as an Astartes kind of House M.D. in that regard ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 In treacheries of the space marines, there is a plague marine lord/champion, who is rather "jolly", until the action starts, then he gets slightly more serious. As mentioned above, nurgle is a rather happy god. spreading his contagion and encouraging growth and change. I'd imagine papa nurgle being upset when his wonderful creations start getting purged. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_f Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I agree about 90%. I can imagine a lot of normal plaguemarines aren't much more than 'space zombies', that have become so diseased they barely have their wits about them, and only the former astartes in them carries on in battle as it did in life. Much the same as many worshipers of the blood god are so given to that aspect of chaos that they lose themselves to it, blinded by the blood rage. But yeah, we need some characters, because a unit can't operate with all blind nurgle-worshiping fools. It has to have some direction, and we have seen that some of those characters do have a sense of purpose (such as Necrosius, for example) but even there lies little in the way of a storyline from 'our' perspective. By and large, I see more from Nurgle than any other chaos god, so I daresay we are the most popular (maybe second to undivided as a whole, if you were to lump together all of the undivided legions and warbands) yet we get next to nothing in the way of any fictional characterization, as you say. Perhaps it's better this way, as we can openly interpret how they behave as Dammeron does, instead of being locked into the fluff of it. This. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Cadian Blood, whilst a novel about the Imperial Guard does feature Nurgle as the nemesis and aside from the aforementioned HH novel it's the only time I've seen them in fiction of any kind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Old list is old, Chop-chop: NOVELS:Novel: Promethean Sun, by Nick Kyme. Novel: Cadian Blood, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. When the Imperial shrine world of Kathur is blighted by Chaos, the brave Guardsmen of Cadia are sent to reclaim it. The plague of Nurgle has set in deeply on the planet, forcing the Cadians into battle with an innumerable legion of the infected. Novel: Horus Heresy: Flight of the Eisenstein, by James Swallow. Flight of the Eisenstein follows the Eisenstein, a frigate of the Death Guard Legion commanded by Battle-Captain Nathaniel Garro (of the 7th Company) set in the days of the Horus Heresy. Novel: Planetkill, Short-story: The Emperor Wept, by Simon Dyton. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3242976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraelix Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I'd also imagine that most turn to Nurgle for release from his "Gifts" or at least for the strength to last through them. As such you'd probably have a few who work in his name just to alleviate the symptoms of whatever Papa has given them most recently. Perhaps they even dissipate their symptoms by actively spreading... Or you get those who are joyful in the surface who envy those they are infecting as rot, blight, fever and decay have rendered their bodies no longer capable of experiencing the "joy" of what they carry... And that war becomes a prayer mass to delight in the gifts of the father by being their to see their effects and spread the "Good Will". They go door knocking in Cadia most Sunday mornings... Or as mentioned previously, you'd also have those who are attempting to take away man's feeble notion of hope. All things die, decay, waste. Nurgle embraces that, and you should too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakarsis Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The Blood Gorgons novel also features a good amount of nurgle and plague marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 yeah I was about to Blood Gorgon... they seemed to know what they were doing...and they were all for grandfather nurgle... those guys seemed to have that point... but I agree besides what little novels they have they dont get a lot.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
compgeek1602 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I honestly can't remember where I read it, but I distinctly remember a little burble of text that gives a pretty good snapshot of Plague Terminators, at least. I'm paraphrasing, but basically a Nurgle Land Raider smashes into an Imperial Fists defensive trench-line, and some Plague Terminators come out. The Termie Champion then proceeds to utterly annihilate everything in his path, including an Imperial Fists company captain, whom he skewers on his power sword while laughing happily about the liquifying effect the disgusting poisons on his blade have on the hapless captain's insides. The story cuts out around there, but that was actually the story that hooked me on Death Guard. That attitude of utter fearlessness, and actual joy, which is rare amongst the denizens of Chaos, combined with enough combat effectiveness to make a Space Marine jealous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circus Nurgling Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The first Soul Drinkers novel they go to a plague planet. A few plaguemarines along with a whole variety of nurgle worshipers and an odd sort of nurgle daemon prince. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 As nurglez says, check out "Treacheries of the Space Marines". The last story (which is actually about the character from the Word Bearers series) deals extensively with Death Guard. Their Champion is pretty dang cool and has some nasty tricks up his sleeve. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 The blurb about a plague champion killing an Imperial Fists captain was from the Death Guard Index Astartes. Anyway, the reason that plague marines aren't used as protagonists in BL fiction is that they are so inhuman and therefore difficult to empathize with and therefore risky to write a book about. Kind of a less extreme version of why there are no books with the focus on Necrons or Tyranids. In any case I've always seen plague marines as cynical and joyless, carrying out their campaigns to prove the inevitability of entropy and decay. The whole jovial "yay Papa Nurgle" thing is more true of Nurglings and Great Unclean Ones I think, plague marines as well as plaguebearers are more morose and serious in carrying out their "duty". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 Another voice for Blood Gorgons. While all of the plague marines are portrayed as competent and able to think for themselves, we get more from their leader, Opsaurus the Crow. He is both jolly and vicious, especially as the plot progresses. Some of the things he says to Muhr about what it means to follow Nurgle are pretty revealing, especially when he does a compare and contrast betwen Nurgle and Tzeentch. edit: Also, there are Nurgle forces in the book Unkindness of Ravens, but they are "just" the bad guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 In all the background my friends and I have done for our games and campaigns, we see the Death Guard as much the same as their reputation during the Crusade and Heresy; dour, sombre, stoic and nilistic, most of the Plague Marines are humourless and speak like callous soldiers, often with some bitter emphasis on how life is cruel/futile and how they were forced into Nurgle's embrace by the treachery of the Emperor and now seek to force his servants into plague-addled deadths as revenge. If there is any humour at all (and one or two of the Death Guard in the army are given to some humour) is is dry and dark, concerned with looting the battlefield, the death of cultist meatshields or the particular plague symptoms on the dead. The lord is slightly different; one of the first gifts given to him by Nurgle was the ability to hear the desperate prayers of all the galaxy's plague victims. Eventually he went slightly mad and now has a paternal humour and joy to him - like a Great Unclean One he strides across the battlefields giving bombastic speeches, chuckling at "the song of the bolters" or admiring the beauty of the viruses he has unleashed. Whilst the inhuman visage and fate of the Death Guard makes them difficult to portray, and almost impossible to make likable, they are more than capable of being characters; bitter, yes, and fuelled by a dystopian callousness that can be seen as the furthest extremes of what might be seen in a mortal soldier, but some of the legion are still more than rotting armour with bolters - not all, but some. My Two Great British Pennies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3243956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbrook Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I remember reading a piece of fluff somewhere that spoke of how the Death Guard always thought of themselves as the toughest legion then when Nurgle plagued them up they had to give in for the first time, They were ashamed so now they spread Nurgle's plagues to make others suffer in the same way and understand that it wasn't because they were soft. will try to find the story...... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3244450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullbrook Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Found it, The beliefs of the Death Guard echoed those of Mortarion, beginning as one thing and ending as the corrupt opposite. A resolute determination that individuals should be free of oppression and terror became a conviction that individuals were not suited to decide what was just for them. A faith in inner strength, iron will and unshakeable resolution in the face of hardship led to pride, arrogance and an utter contempt for those they deemed inferior. When Nurgle's Rot came to the stranded Death Guard, their pride and arrogance was revealed, and their contempt for weakness turned upon themselves. Their surrender to Nurgle left them with only one seething, burning outlet, stoked white-hot by the depth of their self-loathing: to infect the strong, slay the weak and rot the foundations of everything in their paths until it collapses. Their debasement would no longer seem so shameful, if the pestilence of their Unclean Lord eventually brought everything to ruin. from Death Guard index astartes article. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3244453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I always found that the IA Death guard description more "GrimDarK" than the clowning nurglings. If PM´s are humorous, they`d be as toxic in their wit as in their arms and armour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3244458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
empty choke Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 If any of you (and I'm sure most of you have) played the halo series of games, my army of Death Guard is focused behind "the truth of Gravemind" with subtle hints to his control of them through out the army. That all life is to experience despair and that mankind is not allowed to ascend to their seat of total control of the galaxy. "Gravemind" of course being Nurgle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3244705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unspeakable Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Well, I don't know about proper characterization, but I love making my Plague Marines into jovial and dedicated servants of Nurgle. They are happy when they win, because the infection has spread, and they are happy when they die, because they get to go the blessed Garden of Pestilence, forever basking in the warmth of Grandfather Nurgle's embrace. I originally based them off Nurglings, because I didn't really like their portrayal in the Eisenstien book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266231-plague-marine-characterization/#findComment-3245525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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