Dominions Outflanking

[IK Viper]

I am looking into starting a Sisters allied contengent and the thing that really pops out to me is the ability to outflank Dominions, I am impressed by the ability to have 4 FL or 4 MG outflank and hit people really hard off the board edge.

 

Rhino 35 pts

Dominions (10) 4 MG 155 pts

 

190 pts for a (3+) save outflanking quartet of melta

 

I am interested in hearing the community's opinion on these girls, they seem like an auto-take for a short/mid range army like Sisters, do yall run them this way? or is it better to go for an Immolator (they look overpriced to me for what they offer)

 

or do you just go dirt cheap and walk them on?

 

Do you find it useful to attach IC's to them as they outflank?

[Jacinda]

Auto-include? Oh yes. But with so few units in our codex, about half of the are in the same category ^_^ I normally take two Dominion squads and either scout them forward if I have 1st turn or outflank if I go second. Sometimes I will do both.

 

10 in a Rhino is Miko's way of taking them. I have done this a few times too but I like 5 with an Immolator. Neither is significantly better than the other, they just play a little differently.

 

While the world will tell you mech is dead, I put everyone I can in a vehicle. No one walks, especially Dominions. OK, so my Retributors will be deployed in cover but they don't walk much. :)

 

I use my Dominions by throwing them against high value targets like land raiders which often carry some nasty assault squads like terminators or berserkers. They don't usually survive long after making their kill. I don't think I would want to take an IC with them since they have a high probability of being eliminated the turn after they arrive. It would have to be a 2000+ game since the first two HQ choices are virtually engraved in stone. Saint Celestin will be joined with Seraphim and Uriah Jacobus will be with his Battle Conclave.

[IK Viper]

Are Seraphem really that good? they are not very good in combat and their shooting is so close ranged that they will get charged next turn once they shoot, to me they are just wounds for St. Celestine right?

[Hymirl]

They have hit and run, so they don't stay in combat long (celestine helps pass the initiative test!)

With so many flame temates positioned well thanks to jump packs and premeasuring they deal fantastic damage.

They also deep strike, which can be handy.

 

Best of all seraphim aren't even that expensive!

[*Furyou Miko]

I usually run the Dominions in Repressors rather than Rhinos, but otherwise yeah, that's my preferred method - full-size squad, four specials (usually a squad of each unless it's a preplanned game).

 

Regarding Seraphim, they are insane on the alpha strike, but to be survivable you need the full-size squad.

 

Put another way, a Seraphim is 1 point cheaper than a Space Marine with a Bolter. For that price, she can reroll to wound and has a jump pack and (effectively) a 5+ invulnerable save. Actually 6+ rerollable, but either way. Mobility offsets not being able to shoot once at 24" by a significant amount.

 

Then you add hand flamers. Yes, they're expensive (20 points per model!), but that's because they're insane. You may think it's ridiculous to pay 10 points for a flamer with -1 S and AP, but then you realise that with rerolls to wound, a hand flamer is slightly more effective against MEq than a regular flamer (although obviously, a regular flamer with rerolls to wound would be more effective again). Then you realise that each squad can take two, doubled-up. That's four rerollable flame templates per turn.

 

The downside is that, point for point, they're about the same as a Dominion squad with a Rhino - and the Dominions have S4 flamers, which also have the ability to reroll to wound. Plus, the Seraphim get a free Simulacrum, while the Dominions have to shell out an extra 20 points for it. On the other hand again, it can be much harder to not only protect the Dominions' special weapons, but to place them for maximum effect because they're on four models instead of two. On the fourth hand, that also means that if you lose one it's not as big a deal. Overall, the two units are pretty much a wash against infantry - but Dominions are so much cheaper with meltaguns that there is literally no point taking inferno pistol seraphim unless you're playing Apocalypse and want to take out titans with comedic speed.

[greatcrusade08]

the seraphim are also tailor made to run with celestine and vice versa.

she gives them fearless, and in return gets hit and run, ontop of which the unit use her insane initiative value when taking H+R tests.

 

if shes at the front taking the hits, they are far more likely to survive in numbers too.

plus she herself has a heavy flamer to add to the 4 hand flamers and gets to benefit from the wound re-rolls too, and is tailor made to put the beat down in challenges, since she only causes 1-2 MEQ kills per turn anyway on average.

 

so even if they lose combat, they are fearless and can hit nd run for those flamer attacks in the next turn.

with a powr maul on the superior, they are 205 points.. thats cheap

[IK Viper]

I guess so, but the whole reason I am taking Sisters is to ally them into my Blood Angels Jumper heavy army, they just don't hit like assault squads do, nor ar they troops, I think I will go with Dominions in my lists to get backfield shooting on the outflank,

 

that is my problem I guess, I am used to rolling up with a 10 man Assault Squad with 2 Flamers and MB on the Sgt. for 205 and being able to score with them so Seraphem just feel a bit meh vs. that option. I might bring a few to go with Saint though to the H&R

[Jacinda]

The reason to take allies is to add something new to your army. For Blood Angels, taking Seraphim is not adding anything new....

 

So from an ally perspective, the cheapest you can go for the required units would be 190 points for a Canoness and one Battle Sister Squad with no upgrades or options.

 

Dominions with an Immolator cost (iirc) 180 points

Doms(4) and Superior; melta(2), combi-melta, Immolator with Multi-Melta

 

If you want 4 melta guns, the unit will cost (again, iirc) 220 points

Doms(9) and Superior; melta(4), combi-melta, Rhino

 

The Canoness does not matter much so you may as well join her with the Dominion squad. However, to get 4 special weapons you need a full squad of 10 Dominions so the Canoness cannot join them in the Rhino. The Immolator has room for 6 so she could go with that squad version. She does not bring much more than Ld 10 and +1 to your Faith test rolls but if you want to make sure your shots are twin-linked, the +1 helps. If the Canoness is joined with the Immy unit, she could carry a combi-melta as well or even an Inferno Pistol. But since she is with Blood Angels, there are better models to carry the pistols....

 

The cost of the allied detachment is 370 to 410 points for one back field objective sitter and an outflanking, melta madness hit squad.

 

My choice would be:

Canoness with combi-melta

Battle Sister Squad with Flamer, Heavy Bolter and Stormbolter for Superior

Dominion Squad with melta(2), combi-melta, and Immolator with Twin-Linked Multi-Melta, search light and dozer blade

Join the Canoness with your Dominions so they make their Faith test on a 3+ and to add one more combi-melta to the unit.

 

Total: 399 points

[IK Viper]

I think the Saint can CHEAPLY increase my Jump Pack assault effectiveness since one of my banes is high toughness units, I think her high initiative and her wounds on 4+ can really help me against stuff like Wraith Lords, Deamon Princes etc, anything with a 3+ save and high toughness she is ideal for putting wounds on and tying that unit down in combat and even if she dies, she gets back up and causes problems.

 

Plus I am working toward a themed list based around angelic warriors, I want to see Sanguinary Guard, the Sanguinor, Saint C, Seraphem etc. in a list for my non-competative theme/fluff games :-)

[Jacinda]

Now that would look kickin'!

[*Furyou Miko]

That would look awesome. Unfortunately, Celestine can't join Blood Angel units, since we're only Battle Brothers with the guard.

[IK Viper]

I know that, but one model is not that hard to hide (just like Mephiston) and she can be a real problem even if she gets killed becasue you never can count her out,

[*Furyou Miko]

Might be best off to deep strike her in. She can flame the turn she arrives, then join whichever combat is most appropriate in the next.