Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Seriously, why is Mr. Dembski even mentioned here? What did he do wrong? All i remember he said SW are guilty of being hypocrites about the obvious issue which ain't news for anyone really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I wonder how long it will be before ADB arrives to tell you how wrong you are and how all SW Fanboys are the worst of the lot when it comes to Legion fanboyism? Or something to that general effect. Please explain why do you insult something (and someone) and have a SW avatar on your profile ??? And ADB showed in EG how badass are they, so why do you think he'll put them down? Because he's (or she's) allowed to have a opinion, and liking a faction doesnt mean blind loyalty to it. Like I love my Wolves, played them since 2001, but sometimes th epost on here make me cringe from the amount of fanboy drivel they contain. and I also hold the opinion that ADB dislikes Wolves fanboys, because he has gone out of his way to mock them on a few occassions. He's done it here, and on his FB page. the only thing that bothers me from time to time is that he focuses his comments on the Wolf fanboys, (who admittedly, are very vocal), and not other factions. (who can be just as vocal at times) but whatever. and as for the Wolves being executioners...I am leery on the idea personally, but rather see it as they are trusted to do certain jobs no other legion may want from time to time, but are accorded no special respect or mark of status for it. i dont believe a wolf is more talented than any other marine 1v1, except for the fact that they make not hesitate for that second/ half second before striking a fellow marine. now comparing the Wolves to the Night Lords and World Eaters...the Night Lords kill without restraint. they torture their prey, make them feel true terror before striking the final blow. The World Eaters simply "Hulk Smash!" every damn thing in their way without restrain, killing anything standing. I'll leave the effectiveness of these methods for another debate, but what i feel from the Wolves description so far is that they are also willing to show such brutal hack and slash, but only long enough to accomplish a task. they wont play with their food, they wont stray outside their objectives. so when you want a specific goal accomplished, send the Wolves. when you want a system cowed in fear, send the Night Lords. when you positively absolutely have to kill every MFer on a planet, send the World Eaters. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I've never understood what makes SW Executioners. Sure they won't flinch from killing anybody but that's hardly enough. They need to have an edge against all other legions to be executioners. But they don't have the numbers either. So it boils down to an individual Space Wolf is better than any other legion's Astartes. Maybe it isn't about ability, but willingness. A Space Wolf doesn't have to be better than another Space Marine. He may just have to be willing to do it without questioning. Maybe the Emperor just believe that Leman Russ was his loyal dog, who would attack on command. And unlike Angron, stop and come back when called to heel. After all, Space Marines during the Great Crusade were like Doritos. Crunch all you want, we'll make more. If the Space Wolves Legion is decimated in the process of smashing another Legion, it makes little difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well now, just because A-D-B has a signature that says his opinion is his opinion and what he says shouldn't be used to judge his writing doesn't mean we should just dismiss what he says either. While he may be a more high-profile member of this community, he should still be treated just like a member of this community. To do otherwise would be like the person who said A-D-B's "loose canon" theory is justification to ignore fluff they don't want to hear. On that note, both from A-D-B and from the general development of the Heresy series, the "There is no black-and-white, only grey." Mindset is making a comeback. This right here is a perfect example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted November 23, 2012 Author Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well now, just because A-D-B has a signature that says his opinion is his opinion and what he says shouldn't be used to judge his writing doesn't mean we should just dismiss what he says either. While he may be a more high-profile member of this community, he should still be treated just like a member of this community. To do otherwise would be like the person who said A-D-B's "loose canon" theory is justification to ignore fluff they don't want to hear. On that note, both from A-D-B and from the general development of the Heresy series, the "There is no black-and-white, only grey." Mindset is making a comeback. This right here is a perfect example. The problem with ADB is that when he says something along the lines of, "All SW players are rabid fanbois!" Everyone that doesn't like the direction the SW are being taken then jumps on his statement to yell, "A BL author said all SW players are rabid fanbois!! That is now canon!" So I respect ADB's opinion based threads like I would anyone else here. If he expresses his normal dislike for SW as is his habit, then it is his signature line that disclaims it from being fact/fluff versus him spouting off his bias. What I find most amusing about all of this is that there is no problem with people accepting that their favorite Legions had specific rioles. No one is crying foul of Dorn and his Legion of fort builders or Perturbo and his Legion of seige warriors. Just when it comes to the Wolves and a role given by the BL authors does it suddenly become absurd. And that is the second part that is funny is that unless you consider Abnet and Swallow as rabid SW fanbois, I can't recall any SW thinking the Legion were executioners before any of this BL series. The SW players always bragged about being different then other SM chapters, but it was never introduced by the SW players of them being some special executioners for the Emperor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I agree with you, that just like his signature says, his opinion is not reflective of the fluff. And that people who interpret it as such are wrong. However, I also feel that it is just as wrong to the other extreme and dismiss his opinion altogether just because it isn't reflective of the fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 O yeah, let's see - He dismisses Blood Ravens as TS and GW still sticks(teases) with that theory...And I' dont see any facts at him being SW hater ("Emperor's Gift" was example of his impartialness) I' see him only very harsh against fanboys (Can someone point me where he pissed on the SW ? ).... I' dont know what the DA fans have to say when Sevatar killied 100 DA in his attack ("Prince of crows"),I' mean this is a clear example of non-objectivity and I' dare to say "biased to the bone" no matter how cool it was.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245267 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I searched high and low and found nothing indicating AD-B saying "All SW players are rabid fanbois!". This is some stupid fact distorting stuff. Enlightens you a lot about mindset of certain people. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 And can you say you aren't biased? Can you name one person in the entire B&C community who isn't biased? Can you do the same thing with the authors who pick which Chapters they write about? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I searched high and low and found nothing indicating AD-B saying "All SW players are rabid fanbois!". This is some stupid fact distorting stuff. Enlightens you a lot about mindset of certain people. Well, your search is flawed to begin with. You seeming to be looking for hm saying that as a definitive statement. that has never happened that i've witnessed. what i have seen is him poke fun at, mock or otherwise deride excessive SW "fanbois" both here on B&C and on his FB page. (mostly when the "Betrayal" quotes were being published. what i havent seen is him taking pot shots at other Legions fans. He always remains objective to them. (and while i havent read "the Emperor's Gift", i am getting it over the upcoming holidays and from what I've heard he is extremely fair to the Wolves and their fandom in the novel. And his NL books are amazing) WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 And can you say you aren't biased? Can you name one person in the entire B&C community who isn't biased? Can you do the same thing with the authors who pick which Chapters they write about? Are you talking to me? Because what you've wrote has nothing to do with me since i didn't claim any non-bias about anybody. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 And can you say you aren't biased? Can you name one person in the entire B&C community who isn't biased? Can you do the same thing with the authors who pick which Chapters they write about? Yes I'm biased - but I do not write for the BL which is canon for many newcomers...Don't get me wrong I' like that scene when Sevatar was rampaging - but the question stays; was it too much ? This is astartes fighting astartes for Pete's sake,not Orks.... Ooo where are the old days when we could stick to the codex and our imagination..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well, your search is flawed to begin with. You seeming to be looking for hm saying that as a definitive statement. that has never happened that i've witnessed. what i have seen is him poke fun at, mock or otherwise deride excessive SW "fanbois" both here on B&C and on his FB page. (mostly when the "Betrayal" quotes were being published. what i havent seen is him taking pot shots at other Legions fans. He always remains objective to them. (and while i havent read "the Emperor's Gift", i am getting it over the upcoming holidays and from what I've heard he is extremely fair to the Wolves and their fandom in the novel. And his NL books are amazing) WLK So poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois!"? I don't think so. Besides i've seen him handling a guy getting mad at Curze nearly choking Lion in the first duel in another forum so he definitely does not shy away from deriding annoying fanbois as a whole. So the flaw is yours. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 And can you say you aren't biased? Can you name one person in the entire B&C community who isn't biased? Can you do the same thing with the authors who pick which Chapters they write about? Are you talking to me? Because what you've wrote has nothing to do with me since i didn't claim any non-bias about anybody. Nope. You ninja'd me. I wrote this in response to the very post you responded to. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well, your search is flawed to begin with. You seeming to be looking for hm saying that as a definitive statement. that has never happened that i've witnessed. what i have seen is him poke fun at, mock or otherwise deride excessive SW "fanbois" both here on B&C and on his FB page. (mostly when the "Betrayal" quotes were being published. what i havent seen is him taking pot shots at other Legions fans. He always remains objective to them. (and while i havent read "the Emperor's Gift", i am getting it over the upcoming holidays and from what I've heard he is extremely fair to the Wolves and their fandom in the novel. And his NL books are amazing) WLK So poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois!"? I don't think so. Besides i've seen him handling a guy getting mad at Curze beating Lion in the first duel in another forum so he definitely does not shy away from deriding annoying fanbois as a whole. So the flaw is yours. please go back and read what i've said the entire time. I never said "poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois". and since you had difficulty reading it the first time, read it a third time. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well, your search is flawed to begin with. You seeming to be looking for hm saying that as a definitive statement. that has never happened that i've witnessed. what i have seen is him poke fun at, mock or otherwise deride excessive SW "fanbois" both here on B&C and on his FB page. (mostly when the "Betrayal" quotes were being published. what i havent seen is him taking pot shots at other Legions fans. He always remains objective to them. (and while i havent read "the Emperor's Gift", i am getting it over the upcoming holidays and from what I've heard he is extremely fair to the Wolves and their fandom in the novel. And his NL books are amazing) WLK So poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois!"? I don't think so. Besides i've seen him handling a guy getting mad at Curze beating Lion in the first duel in another forum so he definitely does not shy away from deriding annoying fanbois as a whole. So the flaw is yours. please go back and read what i've said the entire time. I never said "poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois". and since you had difficulty reading it the first time, read it a third time. WLK Oh brother. Dear Mods, I think this thread is about to go very out of hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 please go back and read what i've said the entire time. I never said "poking fun at excessive SW "fanbois" is same as "All SW players are rabid fanbois". and since you had difficulty reading it the first time, read it a third time. WLK So why are we arguing and why did you say my search was flawed? I don't get it. I never said he doesn't take pot shots at some SW fanbois either. Or better let's conclude this because i got what i need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Enlightens you a lot about mindset of certain people. I took annoyance at this. Because as a Wolf fan, I am forever taking grief from others who get equally annoyed at the...excessiveness of the more loud elements of the Wolf fandom and have started being more proactive in poking holes in arguements of both sides of the discussions. Being a middle ground Wolf player means having to put up with both sides of the discussion as it grows more and more circular. (there's alot of it here in this subforum) WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well since both of y'all are Wolf fans, y'all should be able to reconcile your differences and calm down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMarko Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Drinking duel !!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well since both of y'all are Wolf fans, y'all should be able to reconcile your differences and calm down. I think you might wanna go peek in the Fang for a few, this has been a relatively civil discussion compared to that haven of fleas and ale. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245298 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well since both of y'all are Wolf fans, y'all should be able to reconcile your differences and calm down. I'm not a Wolf fan, man. Mine is a toss up between Ultras, Luna Wolves and Black Templars. I like Wolves but that's it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Luna Wolves are still Wolves. ;) Okay, my mistake. Still, we all need to take a moment and calm down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I don't see what the problem is? If wolves are executioners, then there executioners, doesn't mean they die any less when you shoot one in the face witha bolter round! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 I took annoyance at this. Because as a Wolf fan, I am forever taking grief from others who get equally annoyed at the...excessiveness of the more loud elements of the Wolf fandom and have started being more proactive in poking holes in arguements of both sides of the discussions. Being a middle ground Wolf player means having to put up with both sides of the discussion as it grows more and more circular. (there's alot of it here in this subforum) WLK I admit it could have been worded better but i only included Brother Ramses in that "mindset" since he made the claim. I truly appreciate your moderating and sensible posts as probably others do. Just that claim offended me with its falseness so i had to resort harsh words. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266395-vi-legion-as-executionersagain/page/2/#findComment-3245319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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