VI Legion as Executioners.....again!

[DarthMarko]

I don't see what the problem is? If wolves are executioners, then there executioners, doesn't mean they die any less when you shoot one in the face witha bolter round!

Exactly I don't consider them as better then other legions (well they are maybe little tougher ;) ) but their role is their role ...cheers man

[MadDoc]

Cheebus *edit* Bikes Maddoc!

 

Read the damn passage! Who is Redknife trying to impress? Where is Hawser to try to scare? Obviously you were one of the people that said that it was just a SW/old rune priest/Leman Russ trying to impress a skajld.

Based on this comment you obviously have no idea. Your erroneous assumption that I was even so much as suggesting that Redknife was trying to impress someone just goes to show your painful lack of objectivity. Just because thats your only point of attack against the evidence from PB, doesn't mean its the only issue with claims from Space Wolves that they're the Emperor's executioners (namely the fact that we have only seen Wolves claiming that, we don't have a single third party doing so).

 

Yet here the conversation is Redknife reiterating the mission set before them and telling his Wolves detachment WHY they are tasked with said mission, which is basically observe Sanguinous and if he turns to Horus, attempt to kill him. Redknife basically says they have this mission because it was what they were made for, that they are the "executioner's sons" and that is why despite it basically being a suicide mission, they have to do it.

I've read the passage, maybe the fact that I'm not trying to push the belief that "the Wolves are the Emperor's Executioners" means I'm actually able to be objective when doing so and realise that Redknife (a Space Wolf) repeating what he believes to be the case does not in fact make that the case.

 

Look dude, you hate the direction the Wolves are being taken. We get that! But if you use one excuse to handle the whole exectioner's bit three other times (impressing Hawser) and then said excuse is not present when it is brought up again, what is the reason it was brought up again? Stop crying about it just once and actually come up with something to discuss instead of just waving it off.

You clearly don't get anything. I have no problem with the direction the Wolves are being taken, what I don't like is people who are taking isolated mentions (by Space Wolves) of what they believe the Space Wolves role to be and jumping to the conclusion that their belief of it somehow makes it fact, for them to then wrongly assume that thats the direction the Wolves are being taken in only compounds the issue.

 

Until we hear that the Wolves are the Emperor's Executioners from an independent/unbiased third party (or the Emperor himself) in a novel, then the only source of the claim we have is from members of the Vlka Fenryka (far from independent or unbiased, its almost as bad as all those people that were taking it as gospel that the survivors from the II/XI were absorbed into Ultramarines because a WB made a throwaway remark suggesting the theory in The First Heretic).

 

If we were to have an actual example of an independent third party stating (or even so much as suggesting) that the Wolves are the Emperor's executioners then I'd be amongst the first to agree that they were in fact His executioners, but we don't have even a single such example, and so anybody currently stating it to be unequivocal fact that the Wolves are the Emperor's executioners is being premature at best.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I took annoyance at this.

 

Because as a Wolf fan, I am forever taking grief from others who get equally annoyed at the...excessiveness of the more loud elements of the Wolf fandom and have started being more proactive in poking holes in arguements of both sides of the discussions.

 

Being a middle ground Wolf player means having to put up with both sides of the discussion as it grows more and more circular. (there's alot of it here in this subforum)

 

WLK

 

I admit it could have been worded better but i only included Brother Ramses in that "mindset" since he made the claim.

I truly appreciate your moderating and sensible posts as probably others do. Just that claim offended me with its falseness so i had to resort harsh words.

 

Then we're all good here, let's grab some popcorn and watch the antics.

 

in general: the idea of Wolves as executioners doesnt bother me, nowhere as much as it interests me in how it is an amazing 180 from the direction the Legion will go as it becomes the Space Wolf chapter. I found the Wolves actions in Prospero Burns very...suprising again in the conflicting nature of the Chapter I love so much.

 

Now, the only thing we can be sure of the 30k Wolves is this: they are seen as feral savages by some, berserkers by others, yet hold themselves in tight restraint. Some legiosn believe (or idly joke that) when Russ meets Horus the fur will fly, and others see the Wolves and Russ in a more dependable light (Guilliman and his Dauntless Few)

 

The funniest bit I find about these discussions is that Leman Russ himself is a contradiction, as is his Legion, as pointed out by Valdor on Nikea. There is no simple or answer to what the Wolves role is in the growing Imperium, as we are using half truths, off-hand comments and bias perspectives to judge for or against them.

 

All we can agree on is that the Wolves are awesome ( :)), and that we are all eagerly awaiting more light to be shed on this part of the story.

 

WLK

[Anaraion]

I found it. A D-B's quote...

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...31249&st=75

 

"Because we cannot be trusted. The Emperor needs a weapon that will never obey its own desires before the good of others. Most of all, he needs a weapon that will never bite the hand that feeds. We are not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor needs. The Wolves obey, when we might not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we couldn't. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.

 

The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does."

 

-- Eighth Captain Khârn, when asked why the World Eaters aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

 

 

 

"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it?

 

The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always."

 

-- First Captain Sevatar, when asked why the Night Lords aren't the Emperor's sanction force against other Legions.

 

But isn't he basically explaining from the WE and NL perspective why the Vlka Fenryka were chosen to be executioners? He even says "But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it?" so the Big E chose the Rout instead... ?

[Arkangilos]

Well, another way to look at it is that the view that they say they are because they believe they were that as they were told it is reinforced by their personalities as loyal and faithful "pets."

 

Think about it, if you have a dog trained for battle, and someone makes you mad and threatens your existence, you would let them loose on that person. The dog, loyal and trained (also your best friend) will gladly follow your orders without a second thought. Therefore, he takes pride in the order. That will make him brag and exaggerate it (in this case "we are his executioners!"). That also helps with the other statement someone made on page one about how executioners could be more of a double meaning.

 

If the Emperor told the Blood Angels to massacre people, Sanguinius would be more hesitant, thinking that maybe the Emperor had lost himself in the moment and would probably reconsider. He would talk to the Emperor about it, and would only follow through once he was sure that the Emperor was dead set on the course. Russ would be like, "Bark Bark, yes master!"

 

See what I mean?

[Anaraion]

Well, another way to look at it is that the view that they say they are because they believe they were that as they were told it is reinforced by their personalities as loyal and faithful "pets."

 

Think about it, if you have a dog trained for battle, and someone makes you mad and threatens your existence, you would let them loose on that person. The dog, loyal and trained (also your best friend) will gladly follow your orders without a second thought. Therefore, he takes pride in the order. That will make him brag and exaggerate it (in this case "we are his executioners!"). That also helps with the other statement someone made on page one about how executioners could be more of a double meaning.

 

If the Emperor told the Blood Angels to massacre people, Sanguinius would be more hesitant, thinking that maybe the Emperor had lost himself in the moment and would probably reconsider. He would talk to the Emperor about it, and would only follow through once he was sure that the Emperor was dead set on the course. Russ would be like, "Bark Bark, yes master!"

 

See what I mean?

 

I have no arguments.

 

I have often thought of this. That the Vlka Fenryka were/are like a large hunting dog in a Medieval manor. We are loved by the lord and follow his every order, but that doesn't mean we do not growl at some of the staff, dig holes where we are not suppose to, steal food occasionally. Point is the staff know we love our master and more importantly that we are utterly loyal. As such we are tolerated and allowed or indiscretions.

 

Thoughts?

[DarthMarko]

Well, another way to look at it is that the view that they say they are because they believe they were that as they were told it is reinforced by their personalities as loyal and faithful "pets."

 

Think about it, if you have a dog trained for battle, and someone makes you mad and threatens your existence, you would let them loose on that person. The dog, loyal and trained (also your best friend) will gladly follow your orders without a second thought. Therefore, he takes pride in the order. That will make him brag and exaggerate it (in this case "we are his executioners!"). That also helps with the other statement someone made on page one about how executioners could be more of a double meaning.

 

If the Emperor told the Blood Angels to massacre people, Sanguinius would be more hesitant, thinking that maybe the Emperor had lost himself in the moment and would probably reconsider. He would talk to the Emperor about it, and would only follow through once he was sure that the Emperor was dead set on the course. Russ would be like, "Bark Bark, yes master!"

 

See what I mean?

 

Or you could say that birdie was too soft for the job...Bark,bark!? Seriously ?

And I' dont see following Emp to the letter is a bad thing - after all, the primarchs acted like spoiled children and the emp was oldest and wisest being in the universe...you see my point ?

[Stormbrow II]

Please explain why do you insult something (and someone) and have a SW avatar on your profile ???

You left out the tattoo, but you can't see it.

 

I'm going to first politely ask if English is your first language, seeing as you're based in Croatia? I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that it isn't.

 

The short answer is humour. I'll PM you an explanation if you would like one.

 

And ADB showed in EG how badass are they, so why do you think he'll put them down?

It's not so much him putting them down as it is him putting the biases and thoughts of individual SW fans down when someone starts a thread like this and it used to happen quite regularly but now its died down seeing as ADB is busy feeding Plasma guns to his son. :)

 

I will say it was nice to get an author's POV on the matter and think about how it would affect future storylines.

[Brother Tyler]

I think we'll put this one in time out for awhile so that everyone can take a step back, relax, and remember that we're talking about a theory in our little make believe world.