Issue with the new Caliban Green

[AngelVeto]

Ok, so I', working on the last of the greenwing I need to paint for my vow, and I finally removed the Corvus helmets. I went to base it with the caliban green and something weird happened. things I painted a few days ago are fine, but I noticed a degeneration in the pain.

 

started with this guy getting kind of grainy...

 

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/Angel_CMSS/C88ED8E1-8AD5-4A35-BE61-4D430A362532-3640-000003657C1DCC81.jpg

 

and then two other marines later I got this and I'm trying to figure out if it is soemthing up with my brush, or the paint itself.

 

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g31/Angel_CMSS/E446865D-AD38-4314-9673-B898D6689515-3640-000003659082A485.jpg

 

 

Any comments or ideas would be appreciated as towards helping me figure this out!

[Harleqvin]

Possibly not mixing/shaking/stirring enough during times of use.

 

How did the model look when you primed it, may have been like that from priming.

 

May have run out of its mixing* agent/wasn't enough of it.

 

Accidentally leaving pot open and it's drying out.

 

Something got into the paint, dust, dirt, etc.

 

All those may be a reason...

 

I wouldn't think it's your brushes unless you are storing them bristle down in grit.

[Brother Immolator]

I had seen the same effect with undercoat. Judging from the gloves you wear at the pick I would hazard a guess that you use an airbrush right? The guy who had that problem sprayed them up close. Or maybe you sprayed too much?

 

EDIT: Call me stupid, but if those were grey they would make excellent scenery as weathered statues.

[AngelVeto]

Wait, you mean a cup of sand isn't good for the brushes? Damn! ;)

 

Those are all really good things to check on. If I had to guess I'd say it might be the drying out thing as my table lamp is kind of strong and there isn't much paint in that particular pot left.

 

As far as age goes, I doubt it's the model as its the dark vengeance beanie marine body, and I primed it using the imperial primer paint pot from citadels technical line maybe 30 minutes before I applied the caliban green.

[Bryan Blaire]

Couple of things I can think of:

1) People have reported graininess issues with some of the lighter colored paints, you seem to have found some in a darker color. It could just be the paint.

2) Don't paint out of the pot. Use a wet pallete, I haven't had any problems like that other than a couple chunky bits. Definitely keep the lid closed.

3) I've noticed that the paint doesn't seem to have very good reactions to water in the pot. Try and keep your brushes dry when you are getting paint from them. I guess this could cause the graininess- I've noticed ones that I've gotten more water in have a much larger amount of thickening overal in the pot.

 

The Imperial Primer does suffer from the same thickening/graininess issues. I'm surprised GW hasn't produced their own wet pallete line (I know that they have the dry palletes, but I just like the wet pallete more).

 

Anyway, if it's really bothering you, I'd just strip it. It definitely could be the paint doesn't have enough left in it and it's just drying out.

[Harleqvin]

Bryan said some good things. I was about to say maybe use a wet palette. I picked up the one from Privateer. It's pretty nice and sometimes you can shut it and paint will be good like a day after. lqtm.

 

I had a slight issue with the Imperial Primer doing something like that but it was because I hadn't shaken it enough. I mean I had to shake it like 5 minutes. It was crazy. I don't know why I didn't put a bearing or something like that in there to make it mix faster. ;) but after I shook it so much it was pretty smooth. Don't know if that may be a cause or not to the issue. you're having.

 

I haven't actually used any of the new new paints beyond some washes, glazes and the Imperial Primer, so I can't give any personal experience thoughts on how these new paints are.

[Brother Immolator]

As far as age goes, I doubt it's the model as its the dark vengeance beanie marine body, and I primed it using the imperial primer paint pot from citadels technical line maybe 30 minutes before I applied the caliban green.

 

To be honest 30 mins sound an awfully short period to me. I leave my models at least 4+ hours to dry after I spray them for the paint to solidify.

[Brother Landrain]

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/images/s/trouble/TS-PDSG_orange-peel_640.jpgIn a car paint shop, that is called 'Orange Peel' defect...

May want to look at that for some causes and solutions.

 

Orange Peel

[shabbadoo]

If I had to guess I'd say it might be the drying out thing as my table lamp is kind of strong and there isn't much paint in that particular pot left.

If your base primer coat was nice and smooth, your above guess, combined with the paint you are using being in the bottom of the paint pot, may be the reason. Pigments do settle over time, so between concentrated pigments perhaps clumping at the bottom of the paint pot, and your paint being a little bit too dried out, that might be the issue. The solution is to shake the hell out of your paints every single time you use them (everyone should always do this), and try not to leave the pots open for very long. To help avoid doing that, use a wet palette as has been suggested.

[Adeptus-Alaska]

I have said this a lot to people having issues with the new GW paints. it's called Flo-aid, by liquitex. get some, mix it 1part to 10 parts distilled water. this stuff is effin magic with the new paint lines. just put 4-7 drops into the paint pot. then by all means, use a wet palette. if you need to thin it more, use your liquitex mix.... my paints flow like vallejo paints, even the base paints!

 

oh, I havent noticed a loss of opacity at all!

[Plastic Rat]

I've found numerous issues with the new paints that turn me off. Discovered more and more as time goes by. Changes in the paint quality, tone and texture.

 

I've moved away from using Citadel paints as much as possible as I don't feel GW are reliable in keeping their stuff stable and their quality high.

 

I have a large stash of the old Dark Angels Green which should hold me over till I find a suitable alternative. For everything else I use a combination of P3 (still some of the best paint ever) and Vallejo. P3 are awesome for coverage and their earthtones are amazing. Need to check out 'Gnarls Green' to see if it's a viable alternative to the old DA green.

 

Vallejo for metallics. (Do yourself a favor and pick up a bottle of Vallejo Bronze and Old Gold... they're the most gorgeous golds I've ever found bar none.) There are also a lot of very nice stable paints that match the old GW colors closely.

 

For GW I still use a few old favorites. Boltgun (or the new equivalent) which I don't feel has declined in quality, and the shades (Devlan Mud/new equivalent and Nuln oil).

 

The new GW formula for painting Dark Angels is horrible and should be avoided. If you're serious about your painting do yourself a favor and start migrating to P3 and Vallejo. At least you know they'll still be around after GW decides to overhaul their entire paint range in a year or so.

[Brother Immolator]

I advocate for vallejo paints too. I haven't tried the new Gw range though. But I havent used their green as I have many of old DA pots still.

[techsoldaten]

I ran into some of the same issues painting up DV boxed set models. Was using Caliban Green I got on the first day it was released.

 

The first couple models I painted were clunky, there was a texture to what was going on the model. I was using a Windsor Newton sable brush to apply to the paint, which usually eliminates any imperfections.

 

To adjust, I cut the paint 2 ways, one with water and one with flow aid.

 

With the water, I got good results. The paint applied evenly with 2 layers of application and had no surface grain. The colors were very dark on the first layer, but the second layer was just about perfect.

 

The flow aid was another story. I added a drop to a small amount of the paint. It covered the models very well with one layer of paint, and it was very smooth. The resulting finish, however, was very shiny, not so much a glossy finish as something that just reflected a lot of light. I cut the mixture with some water, and it cut down on the shinyness but I could still notice it.

[facmanpob]

Certianly a very interesting topic, learning about people's experiences with the new paints. Personally, I've bought about 40 or so of the new paints since they were released, and as yet have not experienced any problems at all with them. They do have slightly different properties than the old paints, particularly the new washes, which are far more "mobile" on the miniature, but all in all I've been happy with them.

[Tamwulf]

Overall, I just have not been happy with the new GW paint range. I can get them to work, but it take a lot of effort. Lots of shaking/stirring, adding an agitator, using an acrylic medium to cut the paint... it should not be this hard to use a paint line, especially one that is geared towards younger/inexperienced painters to miniature painting. Yes, every pro painter and artist will never use a paint straight out of a bottle without doing something to it, but I really think the true test of a paint is straight from the bottle. Shake it up/stir, then dip a brush in the paint, and just draw a straight line on a neutral color palette. Look at the color- it should start strong, then smoothly fade to the background. There should be no bits or chunks. No abrupt color changes. Every time I've tried this with a GW paint, it has failed the test.

 

The old washes were pure talent in a paint bottle. Now, they are merely good. The texture paints are a gimmick. There is nothing stopping a painter from doing something similar by just adding some fine grain sand/ballast to the color of your choice. The paint on Imperial Primer is meh. I find it a bit thick, and if you dilute it, then it won't stick. The primary colors, the base, shade, highlight are a bit iffy. Seems the color between bottles is inconsistent, and I've had the "orange peel" effect mentioned above from just brush painting.

 

When the P3 paint system first came out, there was some quality issues as well. It has pretty much been all ironed out now, and I find it to be a fantastic paint range. Maybe the GW range will get better as well. Only time will tell.

 

I'm a bit of a painting slut/whore I guess. I'm also kinda lazy and hate mixing paints for a particular tone or shade. I use a lot of different paints. P3, GW, Vallejo, Reaper, Tamya, even some stuff from a new paint company called Revolution Paint. For the solid colors, it's mostly P3. I do use some Reaper and Vallejo as well. For metalics, I use the GW Boltgun. The rest are the newer black label P3 paints. Reaper also makes some fantastic metallics in different colors. I love the pearl colors! For a brush on primer, I use Reaper Black Primer (though that's the last resort. I always try to spray on primer).

 

The only thing I use from GW anymore are my older paints from before the switch, the washes, and GW Boltgun. When I find another silver of that particular shade, I'll probably switch. The washes... wow. I just have not found anything to compare to the old washes. They are quite possibly the best/perfect washes ever made, and GW had to change the formula. They still are good, but not as good as before the switch.

 

Lots of good suggestions and ideas in this post about making your paint work. Any new painter should be paying attention here.

[Dark_Master]

I have had a similar issue with a new pot of Dark Angels Green.

 

Had to do a lot of mixing with a fair amount of IPA to get a usable paint.

 

One of the last batches before the change over so not too old either.

 

DM