shin-ryu-ken Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 How are people loading out there terminator squads? I've not got my codex with me at the moment but is it possible to take a lightening claw and powerfist/chainfist? Seems like that'd be a great option for utility as it would give us the +1 A and we could choose between AP 3 at I or AP 2 depending on our opponent. Or maybe an axe/claw combo as we would strike with the axe before opponents with fists/hammers. Also how is the dreadclaw drop pod thing? I've never used one, can we assualt out of it? Lastly, anyone taken Zhufor in 6th? He seems pretty useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraull the Rampager Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 For a Chaos Lord, I think the Lightning Claw, Chain-fist combo would be the best. Giving us a thunder-hammer equivalent that can wreck vehicles easier, as well as a lightning claw to deal with challenges/standard squads. I've also been tossing up the idea of terminator squads, mixing weapons would obviously be best, tailoring to deal with different opponents, so a couple of maces for necrons, tau, orks, guard etc etc, whilst a few with LC's for marine units, and a few with fists/axes to deal with other termies. I'd also load everyone up with combi-weapons to deal with enemies from range as well. Unfortunately, there's nothing that I can find that is a stand-out challenge for Assault Terminators. Those guys have us nailed. Wouldn't have a clue about dread claws. Though my mate uses Zhufor. He's alright. Being St and T 5 is handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Remember that our terminators can take combi-weapons as well for a bit of a sting before they actually reach melee, that should take some wounds off those pesky assault termies before they reach combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 According to a rule savvy individual at my LGS chaos champs and commanders and such should take a powerfist/chainfist and lightning claw to deal with dual threats and be challenge winners. The main idea behind the design is that because both weapons are unwiedly it grants the user +1 attack regardless of whichever weapon is being used. I don't fully believe the legitimacy of this but perhaps someone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 According to a rule savvy individual at my LGS chaos champs and commanders and such should take a powerfist/chainfist and lightning claw to deal with dual threats and be challenge winners. The main idea behind the design is that because both weapons are unwiedly it grants the user +1 attack regardless of whichever weapon is being used. I don't fully believe the legitimacy of this but perhaps someone else does. That is perfectly legal and actually a good advise. Fist&claw will make sure that you'll have a weapon for any situation you encounter, and the specialist weapon rule does not diffrentiate between the different types anymore so it's indeed +1A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I believe you mean "Specialist weapon" Unwieldy is something else entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I believe you mean "Specialist weapon" Unwieldy is something else entirely. Of course, I was just going to...err...see if you caught the easter egg... Good job! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Ofc you were:D i mean, goes without saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 the best (as in pts:kickass) cc loadout for terminators may in fact be mutilators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Yea... Sadly they lack numbers, ranged and speed ... And models(imo):lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 But what they dont lack is access to a Landraider and the ability to be attached to a Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 But what they dont lack is access to a Landraider and the ability to be attached to a Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour ;) Yes they do. (Unless you are willing to sacrifice an HS slot to buy a terrible transport for a terrible unit?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Since when has a Landraider ever been a terrible transport? There's nothing Terrible about Mutilators when you use them appropriately. They're cheaper than a 4 man squad of Terminators with more survivability, and versatility for about the same amount of attacks. I'll take these guys over a close combat chaos terminator squad any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I would like to see some number crunching for mutilators vs assault termies. Loyalists have been using those guys for years, tearing it up and drawing jealous glances from Chaos armies who have been using their old terminators with their combi-weapons and single close combat weapons. Now we have a units similar in function all I've heard is complaints, but few people seem to look at them for what they are intended, namely an answer to those assault termie squads. Khorne Lord with axe and mutilator bodyguard seems like a very choppy unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I'm thinking of using a 5 man squad with mk of tzeentch, pair of lightning claws, and 4 power weapons. WHat are people's opinions on the power weapons for terminators? I'm thinking two axes and two maces (one on the champ) as combined with lightning claw guy, they would be cheap but killy. I'm also wondering if people think VOTLW are worth it on them? I want it to be for fluff's sake, but then I think we should have had it built in like ATSKNF, who knows, perhaps loyalists will have to pay for it from now on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargame insomniac Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 According to a rule savvy individual at my LGS chaos champs and commanders and such should take a powerfist/chainfist and lightning claw to deal with dual threats and be challenge winners. The main idea behind the design is that because both weapons are unwiedly it grants the user +1 attack regardless of whichever weapon is being used. I don't fully believe the legitimacy of this but perhaps someone else does. That is perfectly legal and actually a good advise. Fist&claw will make sure that you'll have a weapon for any situation you encounter, and the specialist weapon rule does not diffrentiate between the different types anymore so it's indeed +1A. It is expensive though at 40 points, so best to use sparingly. I will be trying such a combo on my Lord, maybe might try on Chosen AC as he starts with 3A (albeit only 1W). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 I would like to see some number crunching for mutilators vs assault termies. Loyalists have been using those guys for years, tearing it up and drawing jealous glances from Chaos armies who have been using their old terminators with their combi-weapons and single close combat weapons. Now we have a units similar in function all I've heard is complaints, but few people seem to look at them for what they are intended, namely an answer to those assault termie squads. Khorne Lord with axe and mutilator bodyguard seems like a very choppy unit. You only get three Mutilators in a unit, though. I don't think that's good enough for a retinue, and I've tried it a couple of times. Since you can purchase just one, I think using one or two the way we did Termicide in 5th might be OK, but I haven't tried it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctus Cornix Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 But they have a minimum of three attacks each and two wounds per mutilator. What makes them so much better is those two wounds. If you have say a squad of 5 Terminators, each with two attacks, every time you fail a save, you lose two attacks. If mutilators take a wound, they still go for another wound so if you lose two terminators your losing more attacks and more points than if you were losing a mutilators. I've tried the mutilators out as a retinue for my Counts as Typhus and I am more than happy with their results so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Add in marks and you are laughing. I wonder how they'd do with Zhufor - anyone run him with the new codex at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Since when has a Landraider ever been a terrible transport? It was bad in the last book and has only gotten worse. 10 man capacity and no PotMS make for a very bad (read uncompetitive) choice. There's nothing Terrible about Mutilators when you use them appropriately. They're cheaper than a 4 man squad of Terminators with more survivability, and versatility for about the same amount of attacks. I'll take these guys over a close combat chaos terminator squad any day. The problem is that they are too slow if you footslog them, too expensive if you buy a Raider for them and sit there doing nothing for a whole turn if you deep strike them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanctimonius Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 The problem is that they are too slow if you footslog them, too expensive if you buy a Raider for them and sit there doing nothing for a whole turn if you deep strike them. All of which are good arguments against assault terminators. Yet people maintain in taking them... :lol: Personally I would probably take other things. But I still see mutilators as a comparable unit to assault termies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Personally I would probably take other things. But I still see mutilators as a comparable unit to assault termies. Comparable yeah... but I find Assault termies overrated too, it's hard to get them to where they should be if you play an offensive tactic. Loyalist Assault termies do get the benefit of 3++ while costing less, but of course having two wounds also offers a measure of protection. Makes MoN pretty much a must though (otherwise you'll just get lascannoned, and then so much for having a second wound), making them cost 61 each, and if you add VotLW, it's up to 65 already... meh. Personally I don't plan to get any Mutilators. Chaos Termies though yes, with a mixed weapons loadout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Running 5 termies, MoN, 3 with pair of claws, one with p/fist and champ with power axe (not paying excess points for choosing from armoury for no bonus). Champ gets boon. Run this in a raider. Solid unit in both my tally list and when I run a mixed list. Most armies I face struggle with dealing with armour 14 until im in melta range, as they have all gone with skyfire jazz. with two preds and a vindi plus 2 hellbrutes an armour 14 beast proves too much for their anti tank and then termies say ello ello ello. Also have more termies if I want, although not tested extensivly yet, unit of 7/8 with a pair claw, reaper, 2 chainfists and 3 combi melts. usually rocking MoS who hoof it up with a power armoured wave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 The problem is that they are too slow if you footslog them, too expensive if you buy a Raider for them and sit there doing nothing for a whole turn if you deep strike them. All of which are good arguments against assault terminators. Yet people maintain in taking them... :D Personally I would probably take other things. But I still see mutilators as a comparable unit to assault termies. Ok let's look at the differences between Mutilators and Hammernators. Mutilators: +Cost 5 points less even with Veterans and Mon +6 wounds instead of 5 +Larger array of weapons to choose from - Very susceptible to S10 AP2 blasts and AP2 in general - Less attacks Hammernators: + 3++ protecting them against AP2 weapons + Have access to better Land Raiders that are actually worth their points negating their slow movement. + In Codex: SM you can always think about Shrike + Death Wing Hammernators get a 2-shot Missle Launcher meaning that they are usefull even before they make it to CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 I'm not that great at math hammer, but: Assuming no charge: Mutilators, 9 attacks, 7 hit (with re-roll), 6 wound, 2 dead. Haminators, 10 attacks, 5 hit, 5 wound (maybe 4), likely one dead one wounded mute, slightly worse rolling 2 dead. That makes game over for mutilators no? with slightly better rolling, only one wound and full attacks next turn, but likly not i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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