Eureka!

[Kol Saresk]

Well part of the problem is that Prospero Burns also presents some contradictory elements as well. In A Thousand Sons, the Wolves started with an orbital bombardment and then invaded. It became clear-cut self-defense for the Sons. But Dan Abnett's version as you pointed out, it's the Sons' fault the Razing happened. Essentially, the authors need to talk more to each other and keep track of their own work.

[KarkassBC]

I'm listening to the audio book right now, and there are certain aspects that I missed on the first read that back this up.

 

The astropaths mention at least twice before Magnus's message that Prospero has been entirely silent, and they blame that on Magnus pouting, but now I think it's because they've already been hit by the Wolves.

 

Not yet. I think it could be the effect of Magnus psy-shiled around Prospero. He blocked every communication when he saw the SW fleet approaching to the system.

 

But at the same time the psy shield happened very long after the message sent to the Emperor.

 

From Prospero Burns, it seems as if Russ was charged with simply bringing Magnus and the 1k Sons back to Terra to stand trial for breaking the edict. It was only when they resisted that it blew up in everybody's face.

 

They remained silent but they dispersed the fleet and not energized the orbital defences. Even some Space Wolves around Hawser considered the TS have already surrendered (on the contrary a SW Rune Priest described the situation as a superior example of "maleficarum" because he insisted the planet was protected by a huge amount of invisible and undetectable defences)

 

So what if the Wolves were sent by the Emperor prior to everything because:

 

1. The 1k Sons were breaking the edict. They were training their humans still, and the general population was still using psyker powers

 

2. The Emperor got a warp echo of Magnus's message before it arrived. Which is why the Emperor was sad and didn't even take heed of the message, because he already knew it was coming and what it would do, and he already knew about Horus by the time it got there.

 

So in this case the Emperor would have sent a Legion for a possible future event. I don't think the message had a "time code" attached to it like the option in a picture camera. Maybe the message could be 100k years before, for example . So no reason to do it now.

[TheFacelessMan]

They do collaborate and check. It's just that most BL books are basically unreliable narrators. They contradict and provide dissent because eye-witness accounts are the most unreliable form of testimony.

 

The point of Sons and Prospero was to highlight that. It amounts to nobody is the bad guy in their own story. That certain elements get twisted in the telling makes it all the more compelling, because then its up to the reader to decide which to believe.

 

As the timeline goes I think Magnus's message traveling forward is the only real explanation. Especially considering until Outcast Dead we only assumed it was the same time on Terra. We never saw out of the webway room in Sons.

[TheFacelessMan]

I'm listening to the audio book right now, and there are certain aspects that I missed on the first read that back this up.

 

The astropaths mention at least twice before Magnus's message that Prospero has been entirely silent, and they blame that on Magnus pouting, but now I think it's because they've already been hit by the Wolves.

 

Not yet. I think it could be the effect of Magnus psy-shiled around Prospero. He blocked every communication when he saw the SW fleet approaching to the system.

 

But at the same time the psy shield happened very long after the message sent to the Emperor.

 

From Prospero Burns, it seems as if Russ was charged with simply bringing Magnus and the 1k Sons back to Terra to stand trial for breaking the edict. It was only when they resisted that it blew up in everybody's face.

 

They remained silent but they dispersed the fleet and not energized the orbital defences. Even some Space Wolves around Hawser considered the TS have already surrendered (on the contrary a SW Rune Priest described the situation as a superior example of "maleficarum" because he insisted the planet was protected by a huge amount of invisible and undetectable defences)

 

So what if the Wolves were sent by the Emperor prior to everything because:

 

1. The 1k Sons were breaking the edict. They were training their humans still, and the general population was still using psyker powers

 

2. The Emperor got a warp echo of Magnus's message before it arrived. Which is why the Emperor was sad and didn't even take heed of the message, because he already knew it was coming and what it would do, and he already knew about Horus by the time it got there.

 

So in this case the Emperor would have sent a Legion for a possible future event. I don't think the message had a "time code" attached to it like the option in a picture camera. Maybe the message could be 100k years before, for example . So no reason to do it now.

 

That's what I'm saying. What if the Wolves weren't sent because Magnus sent the message, but rather because the Emperor learned he was breaking the edict with the training of the Rememberancers or some other crime?

 

That would make the Wolves hesitance to exterminate the 1k Sons make more sense. Combined with the 1k Sons feeling of betrayal and active resistance because it seems like they're being punished for warning the Emperor.

 

So the Wolves only get serious about destroying rather than apprehending because, by their resistance, the 1k Sons are showing evidence of their malificarum. Where the 1k Sons are vindicated for their feelings of persecution when they warn the Emperor and then get punished because they used their power to do so.

 

In Outcast Dead the Custodes makes it sound like the Custodes task force had already been gone for a time rather than leaving right after the arrival of Magnus. I might just be reading into that, but if correct then that lends more credence as well

 

Same with Magnus's blocking of everything just prior to the attack. You might be more right about tht being the cause rather than the Wolves already having struck. If that's the case then the message arriving late on Terra opposed to events happening on Prospero backs up the time traveling message theory.

[daveNYC]

I dunno, I think it's better to just pretend that the Outcast Dead never happened. Unless some book comes out that manages to patch things up, it just looks like the author dropped the ball. Having to patch the plot with multiple instances of time travel plus whatever else just looks like the goofy junk that people threw out in the day to try and sustain the geocentric view of the universe.

[TheDarkApostle]

The empyrean is a mystical place.

 

You have to remember that the empyrean is made up of currents that drift in various directions in various speeds, and that they also keep changing over time. What was a fast going current yesterday can be a slow going current tomorrow. The fast currents are the ones most ships try to hitchhike on to get to places far away fast. But sometimes they grab a bad one that ebbs out and becomes slow, and that's when they arrive all from a decade later than expected to even a millennia later than expected.

 

Sometimes the currents form loops and lock you in for eternity, and then weird time-sheningans happen. Like the short story of a group of Ultramarines who answers a Ultramarine distress signal on a planet where the Ultramarines have never been before, and in the end it turns out the Commander of the Ultramarine force sent to investigate was the one who sent the distress signal, 50 years ago. And then they fight a bunch of Chaos Marines and then eventually die out and then the Commander who is the last one remaining sends out a new distress signal, and get themselves to come there again and so the cycle turns full circle and time-sheningans was had.

 

And of course sometimes the currents form whirlpools and you don't want to end up in one of those.

 

TDA

[TheDarkApostle]

Ultramarine story in question is "Fate's Masters, Destiny's Servants" btw, can be found in "Tales from the Dark Millenium".

 

TDA