Army theme idea

[badhobbyist]

so I was thinking about space marines who would be dedicated to getting back old pre-heresy gear from the traitor legions. Reclaimers was the one word I could think of but there's already a chapter named that.

 

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Reclaimers

 

so this is my idea of renegades using the same name that popped in as an idea.

 

be honest, is it silly?

 

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reclaimers

 

a renegade company of the Iron Hands Successor chapter.

 

the command is mildly tainted by chaos (no mutations but his mind is pretty gripped)

 

Their chapter was very tightly linked to Mars. Mars is bad.

 

the commander is a free thinker by slaaneshi(big ego)/tzeentch(hears voices). He gains some insight into the Marsian conspiracy/general badness (I have to do some research here I've been out of 40k fluff for a while) and grows disgusted with the imperium, losing faith in his duty and feeling the space marine's battle is pointless (nurgle).

 

(insert plot developments that implicate the rest of the company here, including a company wide interest in pre-heresy)

 

the chapter is now driven to hunt artifacts of the preheresy era. They are essentially pirates attacking chaos warbands and looking for the big score like it's a TLC show.

[Valkyrion]

I like the idea as a basis, but why do they need to be renegade?

 

I could easily see a space marine chapter founded with the express intention of reclaiming old wargear, the only sticking point would be the level of taint inherent in such activity and the chapter would probably have to have decent relationships with the AdMech, Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy, which would be difficult.

 

You could have a renegade faction sharing similar ideals to the Relictors, but then why not just collect Relictors?

 

Imperial authorised 'Relictors' would be interesting if done well - they'd have to be watched and monitored all the time by the =I= and friends.

[badhobbyist]

I like the idea as a basis, but why do they need to be renegade?

 

I could easily see a space marine chapter founded with the express intention of reclaiming old wargear, the only sticking point would be the level of taint inherent in such activity and the chapter would probably have to have decent relationships with the AdMech, Inquisition and the Ecclesiarchy, which would be difficult.

 

You could have a renegade faction sharing similar ideals to the Relictors, but then why not just collect Relictors?

 

Imperial authorised 'Relictors' would be interesting if done well - they'd have to be watched and monitored all the time by the =I= and friends.

 

no daemon weapons, just ancient gear.

 

why renegade?: ~100 marines cut off from their supply chain and trying to balance long term survival with short term glory. bad ass.

 

I'm seeing renegade company as a way to put an extra helping of flavor into the theme, seems more plausible that 100 marines would act outlandishly than 1000.

 

desperation+independence=codex divergence

 

 

thanks for asking why they need to be renegade.

[BackSplash]

This reminds me of the Souldrinkers. If you haven't read it the story it might give you some ideas.

[badhobbyist]

wow very similar eh... damn.

 

thinking of an original space marine theme is soooo hard...

[Arkangilos]

wow very similar eh... damn.

 

thinking of an original space marine theme is soooo hard...

 

No, I'm pretty sure he is talking about how they are renegades but not necessarily evil renegades.

 

I don't get why they have to be chaos renegades though. Why does chaos have to have an influence on them? Why not just say they through some action they broke off from the rest of the chapter, and now all they care about is what they do not. I think that them being chaos influenced is unnecessary.

[rookster]

note you could just have them be the reminants of a chapter thaught to be destroyed, they needn't fully be tainted by chaos or any thing they could have been stuck in the warp for centuries perhaps surviving by looting chaos bands? only to emerge from the warp and find their chapter is no more?

 

just throwing an idea out there

[badhobbyist]

I put in the chaos influence 'cause it seemed inevitable with them battling around the eye of terror unless they had a really strict routine of monastic purity rituals, which I didn't really want.

 

It's possible they could be so bored with the imperium's struggle that battling chaos marines isn't even fun for them anymore and just reminds them of the sad reality.

 

Their interest in pre-heresy artefacts could be more of a side theme that comes into play when they happen upon the stuff in their adventures.

 

The "lost in the warp" idea is pretty cool too.

 

So maybe they had a past of relic hunting while lost in the warp, but now that they are out they would rather never see a traitor ever again?

 

I imagine them grappling with the problem of purity/corruption. They know what is necessary to stay pure (a scaling amount of discipline in relation to exposure to chaos) and have been able to keep themselves somewhat pure in the past but disillusioned with the endless war against chaos (a war that the emperor's grand crusade seemed to avoid for a while) they've now turned themselves towards battling the more diverse xenos.

 

So yeah that's some really interesting and helpful ideas.

 

I agree that explaining it all by simple chaos corruption is a bit boring and it does sort of make the theme a snap-shot of an ultimately-not-so-long period of time between their initial corruption and ultimate heretical doom. Lost in the warp was something I've steered away from in the past because of 13th company but it seems like most any route I take to codex divergence has been played out by some cannon chapter already anyway!

 

so to review:

 

company lost in the warp

X years of bitter war with chaos, living by very strict codes of purity and a fixation with pre-heresy.

emerge from the warp to find their chapter is either disappeared or they simply can't relate to them anymore, can't serve a chapter master who hasn't been through the same as they have. Don't feel like being a speed bump for Abbaddon's crusades is really accomplishing anything and are sick to their stomachs of the endlessness of it all.

So they strike out on their own and probably get branded corrupt traitors in the process.

Now they try to do good clean xenos fighting, especially defending culturally developed planets from invasion.

They fight chaos when they know they can win and will save human lives by doing so, but they don't fight chaos to fight chaos, and if they think a situation is too far gone or too much for them to deal with they will more likely leave it to play out before returning some time in the future (after the chaos marines have moved on) to orbital strike the crap out of the place.

 

 

thoughts?

[Wulfebane]

For the amount of discipline you want to infuse into their rites of purification, the act of attempting to avoid all interaction with chaos forces sounds distinctively undisciplined... and honestly doesn't sound very Astartes-like. Maybe an IG company. The whole "and they shall know no fear" USR that all space marines have kind of imbues a sense of duty when they encounter such atrocities like Chaos.. I just can't see them purposely avoiding them if there's even a chance of them coming out victorious.

[rookster]

I agree with wulfebane, note too if they have turned away from the Imperium...sorta... they will now be cut off from supplies from mars, this means they might continue raiding chaos raiders for gear.

 

also I think your best bet is to have their parent chapter gone only because they would likely put all their effort into trying to eliminate your "company" when it goes rogue.

 

another thing you might want to consider, have them possibly initially attempt to rejoin the Imperium only to have the inquisition start raising questions about their purity ect ect and sort of drive them into being loyalist renigades?

 

perhaps they are not "tired" of fighting chaos and choose to avoid it but instead after a century of so of fighting only chaos they don't actively seek it out unless they need supplies instead they are quite happy to try to prove their unending loyalty to the Big E through the whole scale massacre of xeno's a welcome change from screaming demons.

[badhobbyist]

to clarify, the discipline that maintained their purity through the warp years has degenerated after their return.

 

I forgot about the supply requirements.

 

gonna have to think this through.

[Wulfebane]

to clarify, the discipline that maintained their purity through the warp years has degenerated after their return.

 

I forgot about the supply requirements.

 

gonna have to think this through.

 

For what it's worth, and take this as a critique, not a criticism, I am not sure you are fully grasping or appreciating the military mindset behind what it takes to be an Astartes. They're called space marines for a reason. Everything done in our modern military is habitualized, from head up to pass out. Every drill, every exercise, knowing how to put your gun together, take it apart, blindfolded no less... all of it is ingrained into their core. They couldn't forget it even if they wanted to.... and all this is before real combat. After that, there's the risk of PTSD, and I hope I do not offend anyone by mentioning it with as little knowledge as I have, but military men come back from wars forgetting how to be anything less than what they were trained to be.

 

So with that, it's not something you can easily "degenerate".. and Astartes do it for countless centuries. In your proposed chapter's case, they need it even more than your average Marine, because for them, whatever ritual they perform to keep themselves "pure" is beyond habit, beyond forgetting; it is a necessity lest they fall to Chaos while in or near the warp. To leave the warp and simply wash their hands of that....it just can't be done. The muscle memory alone simply won't allow for it. The only way you could achieve what you want is to all but completely replace the core of your chapter's leadership with fresh recruits unspoiled by centuries in the warp to even begin to wrap a chapter's doctrine and goals around losing this disciplined routine. Outside of that, I'd doubt even a millenia would be enough to dissolute what has kept their chapter pure since inception.

[rookster]

to clarify, the discipline that maintained their purity through the warp years has degenerated after their return.

 

I forgot about the supply requirements.

 

gonna have to think this through.

 

For what it's worth, and take this as a critique, not a criticism, I am not sure you are fully grasping or appreciating the military mindset behind what it takes to be an Astartes. They're called space marines for a reason. Everything done in our modern military is habitualized, from head up to pass out. Every drill, every exercise, knowing how to put your gun together, take it apart, blindfolded no less... all of it is ingrained into their core. They couldn't forget it even if they wanted to.... and all this is before real combat. After that, there's the risk of PTSD, and I hope I do not offend anyone by mentioning it with as little knowledge as I have, but military men come back from wars forgetting how to be anything less than what they were trained to be.

 

So with that, it's not something you can easily "degenerate".. and Astartes do it for countless centuries. In your proposed chapter's case, they need it even more than your average Marine, because for them, whatever ritual they perform to keep themselves "pure" is beyond habit, beyond forgetting; it is a necessity lest they fall to Chaos while in or near the warp. To leave the warp and simply wash their hands of that....it just can't be done. The muscle memory alone simply won't allow for it. The only way you could achieve what you want is to all but completely replace the core of your chapter's leadership with fresh recruits unspoiled by centuries in the warp to even begin to wrap a chapter's doctrine and goals around losing this disciplined routine. Outside of that, I'd doubt even a millenia would be enough to dissolute what has kept their chapter pure since inception.

 

That said there is the possibility of new rituals having emerged while they were trapped in the warp to help ward of corruption...these themselves could be seen as none to kosher by the inquisition.

 

it should be noted wulfbane that there is precedence for chapters rituals changing over time, normally with the introduction of chaos influence... but still...

 

I think one of the main issues your going to have here Bad is that it is unlikely that the return to the Imperium would cause their rituals to degrade instead they might intensify... this is to say that as their out look changes they would most likely cling to the one familiar thing they have... as i said though these could intensify...say from small blood offerings to the Big E to full out human or animal sacrifices (note just an example)

 

ultimately this is going to be your chapter/company/warband so its up to you.

 

 

A mind without purpose will wander in dark places -Anon. (3rd Edition Rulebook)

[badhobbyist]

the military discipline is one thing, religious discipline is another.

 

In the SM the line definitely gets blurred but from the SM novels/fluff I've read they rarely come off as having a rigid, compulsive religiousness.

 

yeah they worship the emperor and yeah they pray a lot but they aren't religious fanatics (obviously there's exceptions)

 

now for the matter of maintaining purity through rituals, and rituals in general, there's the mechanical element and also the spiritual element.

 

probably most of these marines would maintain their mechanical ritual reflexes (real world example would be something like crossing yourself for protection) but if their faith is gone then how long would they keep up with the routine?

 

that said I do think that most of these ideas are pushing it. This is pure brainstorming and I'm not attached to any of these ideas (not even really hot on any of them). The main idea that I am pretty serious about is that I have a story about a company and not a chapter, because I think that would give the tabletop army a cool feeling and I could more easily have specific names and stories and characters for at least all the sergeants. the salvaging is for a similar reason, I like the look of pre-heresy gear.

 

another possibility is introducing a chapter and then focusing on the specific exploits of one company. That could save me from breaking pretty much every rule in the DIY book.

 

thanks for letting me take advantage of you all despite my lack of concrete idea.

 

I'll post another idea in the morning