Did I miss something regarding Interceptor?

[Sepiroth]

HI guys, I think I’ve missed something huge and just needed to make sure.

 

Regarding the interceptor rule, it says this on page 38 in the Brb…

 

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve within its range and line of sight.”

 

Note “ARRIVED”, it doesn’t say end their move in range.

 

 

Ok, now its impossible for that quadgun to cover the whole table with its 48” range, one of your the corners will be out of range….a small bit, but still.

 

Ok, so does that mean if my Vandettas become available and I fly them up from my table edge and nominate that corner as the corner they arrive from and move them up, then the gun cant shoot them as they didn’t arrive in range but only ended their move in range?

[Morollan]

Ok, so does that mean if my Vandettas become available and I fly them up from my table edge and nominate that corner as the corner they arrive from and move them up, then the gun cant shoot them as they didn’t arrive in range but only ended their move in range?

 

No

[Sepiroth]

motivate please.

 

Just saying no, hardly helps.

[King Willy]

It can shoot at you because it arrived this turn and is within the weapons line of sight and range, assuming it is meets those requirements.

 

if your out of it's range it can't shoot at your flyer.

 

Thats how it seems to be read.

 

Interceptor appears to activate at the end of the movement phase, then you nominate a target that arrived from reserves, if it's within range and line of sight then you can resolve any shots that the gun can take.

[Sepiroth]

it states

 

"... that has arrived from reserve within its range..."

 

Implying that on arrival, the target must’ve have been in range to validate the trigger.

[Hlakir]

The way it has been worded I have to agree with the OP on this one.

 

Had it instead read: “At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit, that has arrived from reserve, within its range and line of sight.” it would have been a different matter. But right now the text in the BRB do says what the OP suggests it does.

[Valkyrion]

If, at the end of the movement phase, it ends up within range and los after arriving then it can be shot at. If you deploy it on the board out of range or los then it can't.

 

It's where the model ends up at the end of the movement phase that is important, not where the model started from at the beginning of the phase.

[King Willy]

God damn, I can tell that when I read it there is two ways to interpret it.

 

1.The unit needs only have arrived on the board to be targeted and is now within LoS and in range to be shot at.

 

2. That it's point of Arrival is within LoS and Range to be shot at.

 

Lucky I don't run quad guns hehe.

[Seahawk]

Coteaz's "I've Been Expecting You" uses the same words "arrives within", and it's been concluded that only if you actually enter the table within range of his effect (or range of the gun's effect in this case) are you allowed to shoot.

 

ie, if Coteaz is in the middle of the table and a flyer arrives from Reserves, much more than 12" away, but ends its move within that 12" bubble, then Coteaz cannot shoot. That is how it was ruled. Thus, the same would go for any interceptor gun because they use the same language.

[ShinyRhino]

It's a poorly worded rule. They botched 6th grade grammar class when writing this rulebook.

 

The rule SHOULD read "At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve that turn and that is within range and line of sight of the weapon."

 

Instead you have a completely effed-up rule wording that allows you to hit models outside the range and LOS of your weapons. If they truly wanted you to be able to shoot at the unit based on where it arrived from (point on a board edge, deeostrike location, what have you) they should have written it to state that the Interceptor fires as soon as the unit arrives, not after it's done its movement.

[Seahawk]

Agreed. Unfortunately, sad pandas.

[Morticon]

Grammatically its a poorly constructed sentence, and it is one of those "grammatically ambiguous" rules - as opposed to "its ambiguous cause i didnt read it properly".

 

Id say rock with RAI in this case. Coteas's rule is very clear in the wording where it wants you to fire within a certain area.

[Seahawk]

An interceptor gun works exactly the same way and same grammar as Coteaz though, and it does give a certain area. ;)

 

But I agree, RAI is the accepted way to play.

[Gentlemanloser]

Easy solution.

 

Is Interceptor a basic or advanced rule?

 

Are LoS and Range requirements basic or advanced rules?

 

Can we apply the 'Advanced trumps Basic' conflict resolution we've been told to use?

 

If not, and all three are Advanced rules, then they all remain in play.

 

Can the Intercptor shoot?

 

Has the target unit;

 

1) Arrived from reserves this turn?

2) Is it in Range of you shooting attack (which happens at the end of the Phase, after all movement)

3) Is it in LoS to the weapon (at the end of the phase, after all movement)

 

Tick all three boxes, and you can shoot. Pew Pew.

 

If none of the rules overrule each other, then they are all in play, and must all be satisfied.

[Morollan]

Coteaz's rule says "arrives from reserve" whereas Interceptor says "Has arrived from reserve". Coteaz's shooting attack happens immediately. Interceptor happens at the end of the movement phase. It's badly worded but I don't think you can readily say that it is referring to the position of the target upon arrival rather than at the time of the shooting attack. This would also be consistent with the Coteaz ruling, that the position is determined when the shot occurs.

[Seahawk]

Coteaz (present tense): "That unit is arriving from Reserves within 12" of us, fire!" <or> "That unit is arriving more than 12" away from us, aww."

 

Quad-gun (past tense): "That unit has arrived from Reserves within 48" of us, fire (maybe)!" <or> "That unit has arrived more than 48" from us, aww."

 

 

So, because Interceptor happens at the end of the movement phase, it's all messed up'd up as Shinyrhino indicated. Coteaz is easy to resolve because it makes sense grammatically and works correctly with the rules. Interceptor doesn't work, because if a unit arrives within 48" but moves out of range, you cannot fire as per the range requirement, and if a unit arrives outside the 48" but then moves into range, you cannot fire at it because it arrived from Reserves more than 48" away.

[Ming]

I read that you fire interceptor at the end of movement, range and line of sight restrictions apply per normal shooting. Not a big deal, but as a reminder it applies to anything coming in from reserves, like outflankers, deep strikers, etc., dudes disembarking from drop pods, reserved rhinos, not just flyers. The best thing is to get that quad gun manned in the best location for use, and don't block its line of sight to likely enemy entry points. Kind of which I could have many of them...

[Panzerbjørn]

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve within its range and line of sight.”

It's reasonably clear that you can only shoot at something where the entry point was within range of the weapon with the Interceptor rule.

 

If they wanted you to be able to shoot based on whether the flyer ended up in range and line of sight of your gun, then they would have written:

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit within its range and line of sight that has arrived from reserve.”

 

Seems like a fairly clear cut case...

[ShinyRhino]

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve within its range and line of sight.”

It's reasonably clear that you can only shoot at something where the entry point was within range of the weapon with the Interceptor rule.

 

If they wanted you to be able to shoot based on whether the flyer ended up in range and line of sight of your gun, then they would have written:

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit within its range and line of sight that has arrived from reserve.”

 

Seems like a fairly clear cut case...

 

As folks have said, the RAW is clear, but it makes no actual game sense.

If a Flyer arrives an inch from your Interceptor weapon and moves out of its range, how is it shooting that Flyer? It's outside the weapon's effective range when the shot takes place! Same with LOS. If the flyer ends up completely out of the weapon's LOS, how is it shooting the Flyer? The wording stands out because it breaks every rule of shooting in the game.

[Gentlemanloser]

By definition, it breaks shooting rules. But not all of them. The only rule it breaks, is giving you the ability to shoot at the end of your opponents Movement Phase.

 

Usually that's a no no. :D

[dswanick]

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from reserve within its range and line of sight.”

It's reasonably clear that you can only shoot at something where the entry point was within range of the weapon with the Interceptor rule.

 

If they wanted you to be able to shoot based on whether the flyer ended up in range and line of sight of your gun, then they would have written:

“At the end of the enemy Movement phase, a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit within its range and line of sight that has arrived from reserve.”

 

Seems like a fairly clear cut case...

I love when people effectively state "If Games Workshop wanted it to work the way they wanted it to work, they would have written it the way I want it written...".

[Gentlemanloser]

Thinking a little on this;

 

As folks have said, the RAW is clear, but it makes no actual game sense.

If a Flyer arrives an inch from your Interceptor weapon and moves out of its range, how is it shooting that Flyer? It's outside the weapon's effective range when the shot takes place! Same with LOS. If the flyer ends up completely out of the weapon's LOS, how is it shooting the Flyer? The wording stands out because it breaks every rule of shooting in the game.

 

It makes perfect sense.

 

'Interceptor' represent the ability to track a fast moving object, and to attempt to shoot it out of turn.

 

The 'Interceptor' gun begins tracking the path of the target the moment it enters play. No matter where on the board the target enters from.

 

It takes this time (the whole movement phase) to track and calculate the velocity/path of the target in order to land an accurate shot.

 

While taking this time tracking movement, when the path is plotted and it's time to fire (at the end of the movement phase), if the target is now out of line of sight, or out of range, the Interceptor Weapon can no longer hit its target (and isn't allowed to fire).

 

A Flyer, could zoom on board, at supersonic speeds, right next to the Interceptor, but by the time it's computed the path of movement and is able to fire, the Flyer might have moved far out of range.

 

Edit:

 

That being said, you could also read the RAW that if the Flyer didn't enter originally within LoS/Range, then it can't be shot at at all. Which also makes perfect sense. :D

 

If we imagine that the Interceptor needs the entire round to track movement for an accurate shot, then being obsucred or not in range of its sensors to begin with, won't let the Interceptor have enough time.

 

But whatever way you interpret the Interceptor rule, you can't shoot at a unit that ends it movement outside LoS/Range with the Interceptor.

[Grey Mage]

it states

 

"... that has arrived from reserve within its range..."

 

Implying that on arrival, the target must’ve have been in range to validate the trigger.

This is why the world is much better with the oxford comma. Both interpretations are correct- grammatically. Id side with being able to shoot him since he moved within range, as it seems better for balanced gameplay. Flyers have enough advantages as it is.

[Seahawk]

In a nutshell:

 

Unit arrives within range/LoS, stays in range/LoS = fire!

Unit arrives within range/LoS, moves out of range/LoS = fire!

Unit arrives outside of range/LoS, stays out of range/LoS = no shot

Unit arrives outside of range/LoS, moves into range/LoS = no shot

 

Because GW flubbed a sentence.

[dswanick]

In a nutshell:

 

Unit arrives within range/LoS, stays in range/LoS = fire!

Unit arrives within range/LoS, moves out of range/LoS = fire!

Unit arrives outside of range/LoS, stays out of range/LoS = no shot

Unit arrives outside of range/LoS, moves into range/LoS = no shot

 

Because GW flubbed a sentence.

I'm gonna disagree. If you're going to parse the words for their least logical interpretation then go full bore -

Only if the unit arrives in range/LoS and stays within range/LoS can the interceptor fire. Because Interceptor only contains triggers for allowing a shot, it doesn't override the basic shooting rules that the unit must be in range/LoS when the shot is measured/rolled to-hit for.