BA Post-CSM Codex

[darth_giles]

Ok, so the new Chaos codex is out. While it contains some good stuff... I can't help but feel meh about it, especially with the new plastics. I'm sorely tempted to just dig out my old BA codex and use it for my DIY chapter- whose tactics emphasize jump packers, killing it with fire, and an unhealthy emphasis on striking fear into the enemy's hearts and bladders.

 

ANYway, does anyone have any thoughts on how the BA codex might've been affected by the release of the CSM codex? Anything change massively? I'm an old Chaos hand from years back, so please go into detail.

[knife&fork]

Assault marines got worse with the nerf to furious charge and FnP. Add more punishing assault rules and overwatch and you've got yourself a less then ideal codex if you like it jumper heavy.

 

Raptors are a better deal now than assault marines. Even without the scoring. I think the kind of hybrid lists that seem to be on the rise with BA is done better with CSM, unless of course you want to field something very BA specific.

[Kickrock]

I'm gonna disagree a little bit...

 

If we're talking about Raptors they have their perks. Fear, Champion, slightly cheaper until you add Marks and Icons, but it takes away the need for a Priest. But they've got three draw backs compaired to Blood Angels. The first is Descent of Angels. Nothing beats putting Marines where you need them when you need them! Something that Raptors can't do effectivly. Combat Squads, which goes right along with Descent of Angels. And the third is the fact that our ASM are Troop Choices. Why this is better than Chaos? Raptors take up a Fast Attack slot. In the Chaos Codex, Bikes are a better choice then Raptors in most general cases. Helldrakes are a must have. Most of the time your 3 Fast Attacks are taken up.

 

Other then that, it depends on what you're comparing it to between Chaos and BA. Havoks with anti air Missiles are nice, but so is the Signum and Plasma cannons. Sorcs are mean offensive units, but Librarians are scary force multipliers. All Blood Angel vehicles are better then Chaos, but Forgefiends are a beast all by themselves. Obliterators and stupidly good offensive HQs (Lords and Princes) are about the only thing that Blood Angels can't match. But we have flying Terminators and Hammernators.

 

I don't think Chaos does it better, I just feel that we have to do it different.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

... I'm sorely tempted to just dig out my old BA codex and use it for my DIY chapter

...ANYway, does anyone have any thoughts on how the BA codex might've been affected by the release of the CSM codex? Anything change massively?

I'm slightly confused by your post there friend. Do you mean to say that right now you play CSM but want to know if BA would be better? Or do you want to know how the two Codicies compare and then pick the best? Or do you want to know how BA match-up to fight against CSM (ie 'affected by')?

 

Small nuances but I'm confused which direction to answer in.

 

Comparing the two Codicies is different than determining how they fight each other.

[Lord Fancy Pants]

... I'm sorely tempted to just dig out my old BA codex and use it for my DIY chapter

...ANYway, does anyone have any thoughts on how the BA codex might've been affected by the release of the CSM codex? Anything change massively?

I'm slightly confused by your post there friend. Do you mean to say that right now you play CSM but want to know if BA would be better? Or do you want to know how the two Codicies compare and then pick the best? Or do you want to know how BA match-up to fight against CSM (ie 'affected by')?

 

Small nuances but I'm confused which direction to answer in.

 

Comparing the two Codicies is different than determining how they fight each other.

 

 

I think he is wondering if he should go back to using Codex BA to represent his Chaos DIY chapter, rather than using the new Chaos Codex. Other than that, not really sure what to make of his question...

[knife&fork]

Helldrakes are a must have.

doh, forgot about the helldrakes.

[darth_giles]

'm slightly confused by your post there friend. Do you mean to say that right now you play CSM but want to know if BA would be better? Or do you want to know how the two Codicies compare and then pick the best? Or do you want to know how BA match-up to fight against CSM (ie 'affected by')?

 

Small nuances but I'm confused which direction to answer in.

 

Comparing the two Codicies is different than determining how they fight each other.

Ok, sorry about that. I was concerned about how the two fight each other, with an emphasis on making a viable BA list. I don't have a standing army right now- too many editions and dips in the brake fluid- but I've played CSM in the past using previous codices, and I have enough semi-serviceable figures to play proxy test games.

 

And for the record, the helldrake is a bit of an 800# gorilla in the room since Loyalist Havoc squads don't seem to get flakk missiles the way Chaos ones do. Or at least it doesn't list it in the FAQ.

[Demoulius]

Played a heavily nurgle themed list this week. He dident have to many of the new shinies but dear god those T5-T6 guys are a tough nut to crack! Killing things on the charge is a must! If you fail to put to much hurt on them your fighting an uphill battle :P Also played against his T6 spawn with my nids and theyre terrifying! Genestealers could only touch them on 6's to wound :ph34r:

 

As for the other 3 panthions I cant tell you much...Against nurgle though kill as much as you can at range! And IF you have to charge something (had to charge a unit of T6 bikers...) makes sure you do it with every upgrade you can. Rerolls from liby, FnP and FC from SP, etc. Preferably with power weapons of some kind but tbh if its plaguemarines your charging be prepared to face many annoying 5+ FnP rolls ;)

 

Constant challenges are also very annoying... Either have some throw away sargeants or equip them with LC/PW yourself. Make sure your HQ's/IC's are protected against it somehow as otherwise theyre going to get 1 shotted or end up not fighting in the battle if you dont want to risk them...

 

Yea a tough nut to crack, but a fun one and defenitly do-able :)

[Sokhar]

And for the record, the helldrake is a bit of an 800# gorilla in the room since Loyalist Havoc squads don't seem to get flakk missiles the way Chaos ones do. Or at least it doesn't list it in the FAQ.

 

Loyalist Marine Devastators don't have an option for flakk missiles, no. But judging by the Chaos codex, they'd be too expensive to be effective anyway. Blood Angels have an outstanding flyer defense in our own Storm Raven though, and the Helldrake really can't do anything to it in turn. So you'll probably eat a turn of Baleflamer, and then the Raven has a good chance of splashing it in return (twin-linked Assault Cannnon, twin-linked Multi-Melta, and two Bloodstrike Missiles).

[darth_giles]

Loyalist Marine Devastators don't have an option for flakk missiles, no. But judging by the Chaos codex, they'd be too expensive to be effective anyway. Blood Angels have an outstanding flyer defense in our own Storm Raven though, and the Helldrake really can't do anything to it in turn. So you'll probably eat a turn of Baleflamer, and then the Raven has a good chance of splashing it in return (twin-linked Assault Cannnon, twin-linked Multi-Melta, and two Bloodstrike Missiles).

And if your opponent takes the turbo-autocannon, which he's likely to? S8 Heavy 4 kinda hurts AV 12, unless you can get an alpha strike on it. And even then, you've got the whole issue of It Will Not Die.

 

Damn thing's a menace, to be entirely honest.

[benjak]

Loyalist Marine Devastators don't have an option for flakk missiles, no. But judging by the Chaos codex, they'd be too expensive to be effective anyway. Blood Angels have an outstanding flyer defense in our own Storm Raven though, and the Helldrake really can't do anything to it in turn. So you'll probably eat a turn of Baleflamer, and then the Raven has a good chance of splashing it in return (twin-linked Assault Cannnon, twin-linked Multi-Melta, and two Bloodstrike Missiles).

And if your opponent takes the turbo-autocannon, which he's likely to? S8 Heavy 4 kinda hurts AV 12, unless you can get an alpha strike on it. And even then, you've got the whole issue of It Will Not Die.

 

Damn thing's a menace, to be entirely honest.

 

Isn't the Helldrake a BS3? And the autocannon isn't even twin-linked. I'd be thrilled if the chaos player equipped his Heldrake with one, at least he won't be roasting whole marine squads every turn.

[Deschenus Maximus]

And if your opponent takes the turbo-autocannon, which he's likely to? S8 Heavy 4 kinda hurts AV 12, unless you can get an alpha strike on it.

 

4 shots, 2 hits, 0.33 glance, 0.66 pen, 0.11 Explode. Nothing to panic about. The Drake has far, FAR more reason to be scared of the Raven than vice-versa.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Alright I can feel a long post comin on ;)

 

When it comes to BA fighting the new CSM, there are several unique threats to consider. Some have easy counters (tactical), some require difficult counters (strategic), and some have very specific counters (usually Mephiston lol). I've got experience from both sides of the fence here, both playing as BA against new-CSM and also (heresy) playing as the new-CSM myself :devil: . I've covered what I consider to be above-average threats for Blood Angels specifically.

• Flying Prince with Black Mace: FMC, T5, I8, WS9, Fleshbane, Hatred: Marines, 5+D6 attacks at AP2. If Nurgle, then 3+ Cover when flying.
  • Weakness: 3+/5++ Save at best, No EW, No Grenades, Always Solo.
    
  • Counter: Stormraven can kill it in one go (maybe not Nurgle). Once in melee, impossible to stop (Not even Mephiston). Use MSU so it will never lock in combat, then shoot it to death (fairly easy). Can Fix him a turn by charging with a Sergeant, he must accept challenge. If you anticipate he is charging you, position your Characters to avoid Challenge.
    

  [*]Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury on Bike/Juggernaut: Cavalry, WS5, T5, I5, Str6, 5+D6 attacks at AP2. Usually Hatred: Marines. Delivery system of either cheap Spawn or good Bikers.

  • Weakness: 3+/4++ Save at best, No EW, Must Challenge
    
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Otherwise Str10 and/or low-AP shooting or concentrated mass shooting. Harder to deal with than previously mentioned Prince if you don't have Mephiston. Both can slay a whole 10 MEQ by themselves. Use MSU. Same challenge-tactics as with the Prince (except do what you can to avoid Champ challenge acceptance). Shoot to death as best as possible. Full 10 Bikers with this Lord will be extremely difficult to handle without Mephiston.
    

  [*]Bikers: Can be Marked Nurgle (for shooting/fixing), Slaanesh (for shooting/winning melee), or Khorne (winning melee). All iterations are simply amazing value. IMO, best unit in the entire Codex and most dangerous for BA. TL-bolter, Pistol+CCW, T5, Jink, Turboboost, unit takes double-PG/MG, can take 10 models for sub-300 points.

  • Weakness: Not many. Cannot fight on 2nd floor of Ruins.
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Demolisher, Massed plasma otherwise. Do not use allied Light Infantry. Edge in melee is with them, for all marked versions. Unmarked Bikers are equal (or better if charging) in combat with BA ASM. Shoot as best as possible. Achieve concentration to win melee if unavoidable.
    

  [*]Heldrake: AV12 Flyer (Hover) with a D3+1 Str7 Vector Strikes followed by Str6 AP3 Torrent Flamer. 5++ and IWND. Reroll wounds/pens once per game.

  • Weakness: Very weak versus opposing flyers. No attacks pierce FnP.
    
  • Counter: Stormravens own them. General anti-aircraft strategies and tactics apply, except Defense Line Devastators. Use full-spread formations, the Torrent Flamer will hit maximum of 4 models.
    

  [*]Nurgle Obliterators: T5, 2W, 2+/5++. Tons-o-Guns, Powerfists, Deepstrike. Same cost as Heavy-Weapon Terminator except T5 2W (ie great value)

  • Weakness: Must change guns between turns. Only one gun-type good for Light Infantry (Assault Cannon). Very few ablative wounds. Cannot Overwatch because Slow and Purposeful.
    
  • Counter: Demolishers, Plasma, Melta, Bloodstrikes. Also, allied Light Infantry with mass shooting. Beware melee until sufficiently attritioned (T5 2+ sv with PF is... bad).
    

  [*]Abaddon & Khârn: I lump them together because counter is the same minus one exception. Strength is basically They Rule Melee, hands down.

  • Weakness: Mobility is horrid. Khârn only has 3+/5++.
    
  • Counter: Use mobility to ignore. Shoot only if cannot be ignored (ie Abaddon deepstrikes and you cannot escape quickly enough). Mephiston owns Khârn. If they can achieve melee, treat as Prince or Khorne Axe-Lord mentioned above.
    

  [*]Fiends: Various permutations, either shooting or melee.

  • Weakness: AV12
    
  • Counter: Melta (one thing BA usually have in abundance). Also, Mephiston Str10 or Powerfists/meltabombs. Use spread-formations against Ecto-Fiends (small blast Str8 AP2 shooters).
    

  [*]Plague Marines: Fearless, T5, FnP, 2A, Str4 Poisoned. Can take double plasma/meltaguns at 5 models. Only Cult Marines worth mentioning (all others are over-priced poor value).

  • Weakness: I3, Low numbers (expensive), Poor mobility (generally come in Rhinos).
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Otherwise Demolishers, Plasma, Melta, PFs or PAxes w/Furious Charge. Be careful of melee, the edge is with them because even with lower numbers, T5 and Poisoned (meaning re-roll wounds) make up for their I3.
    

  [*]Nurgle Mutilator: Runs Solo for Best Effect. 65pt for T5, 2W, 2+/5++, Hatred: Marines. Can choose double-weapons of whatever melee he wants (or close enough). Used exactly like a Lone-Wolf except he can and will Deepstrike. Causes high disruption, difficult to ignore in your backfield. Easy source of Linebreaker.

  • Weakness: Only 2W and 5++ against low-AP. No shooting. Turn 3 charge at very soonest. Slow and Purposeful-- cannot run or Sweeping Advance. Must switch melee weapon type every turn (not much of a problem though).
    
  • Counter: MSU with 2 plasmaguns. Otherwise can cause disporportionate disruption/diversion/attention. Easy to defeat, but hard to defeat economically.
    

Other than that, I feel the other items within the new CSM codex play out just like any other MEQ Codex. Any other thoughts?

[benjak]

Alright I can feel a long post comin on ;)

 

When it comes to BA fighting the new CSM, there are several unique threats to consider. Some have easy counters (tactical), some require difficult counters (strategic), and some have very specific counters (usually Mephiston lol). I've got experience from both sides of the fence here, both playing as BA against new-CSM and also (heresy) playing as the new-CSM myself :devil: . I've covered what I consider to be above-average threats for Blood Angels specifically.

• Flying Prince with Black Mace: FMC, T5, I8, WS9, Fleshbane, Hatred: Marines, 5+D6 attacks at AP2. If Nurgle, then 3+ Cover when flying.
  • Weakness: 3+/5++ Save at best, No EW, No Grenades, Always Solo.
    
  • Counter: Stormraven can kill it in one go (maybe not Nurgle). Once in melee, impossible to stop (Not even Mephiston). Use MSU so it will never lock in combat, then shoot it to death (fairly easy). Can Fix him a turn by charging with a Sergeant, he must accept challenge. If you anticipate he is charging you, position your Characters to avoid Challenge.
    

  [*]Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury on Bike/Juggernaut: Cavalry, WS5, T5, I5, Str6, 5+D6 attacks at AP2. Usually Hatred: Marines. Delivery system of either cheap Spawn or good Bikers.

  • Weakness: 3+/4++ Save at best, No EW, Must Challenge
    
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Otherwise Str10 and/or low-AP shooting or concentrated mass shooting. Harder to deal with than previously mentioned Prince if you don't have Mephiston. Both can slay a whole 10 MEQ by themselves. Use MSU. Same challenge-tactics as with the Prince (except do what you can to avoid Champ challenge acceptance). Shoot to death as best as possible. Full 10 Bikers with this Lord will be extremely difficult to handle without Mephiston.
    

  [*]Bikers: Can be Marked Nurgle (for shooting/fixing), Slaanesh (for shooting/winning melee), or Khorne (winning melee). All iterations are simply amazing value. IMO, best unit in the entire Codex and most dangerous for BA. TL-bolter, Pistol+CCW, T5, Jink, Turboboost, unit takes double-PG/MG, can take 10 models for sub-300 points.

  • Weakness: Not many. Cannot fight on 2nd floor of Ruins.
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Demolisher, Massed plasma otherwise. Do not use allied Light Infantry. Edge in melee is with them, for all marked versions. Unmarked Bikers are equal (or better if charging) in combat with BA ASM. Shoot as best as possible. Achieve concentration to win melee if unavoidable.
    

  [*]Heldrake: AV12 Flyer (Hover) with a D3+1 Str7 Vector Strikes followed by Str6 AP3 Torrent Flamer. 5++ and IWND. Reroll wounds/pens once per game.

  • Weakness: Very weak versus opposing flyers. No attacks pierce FnP.
    
  • Counter: Stormravens own them. General anti-aircraft strategies and tactics apply, except Defense Line Devastators. Use full-spread formations, the Torrent Flamer will hit maximum of 4 models.
    

  [*]Nurgle Obliterators: T5, 2W, 2+/5++. Tons-o-Guns, Powerfists, Deepstrike. Same cost as Heavy-Weapon Terminator except T5 2W (ie great value)

  • Weakness: Must change guns between turns. Only one gun-type good for Light Infantry (Assault Cannon). Very few ablative wounds. Cannot Overwatch because Slow and Purposeful.
    
  • Counter: Demolishers, Plasma, Melta, Bloodstrikes. Also, allied Light Infantry with mass shooting. Beware melee until sufficiently attritioned (T5 2+ sv with PF is... bad).
    

  [*]Abaddon & Khârn: I lump them together because counter is the same minus one exception. Strength is basically They Rule Melee, hands down.

  • Weakness: Mobility is horrid. Khârn only has 3+/5++.
    
  • Counter: Use mobility to ignore. Shoot only if cannot be ignored (ie Abaddon deepstrikes and you cannot escape quickly enough). Mephiston owns Khârn. If they can achieve melee, treat as Prince or Khorne Axe-Lord mentioned above.
    

  [*]Fiends: Various permutations, either shooting or melee.

  • Weakness: AV12
    
  • Counter: Melta (one thing BA usually have in abundance). Also, Mephiston Str10 or Powerfists/meltabombs. Use spread-formations against Ecto-Fiends (small blast Str8 AP2 shooters).
    

  [*]Plague Marines: Fearless, T5, FnP, 2A, Str4 Poisoned. Can take double plasma/meltaguns at 5 models. Only Cult Marines worth mentioning (all others are over-priced poor value).

  • Weakness: I3, Low numbers (expensive), Poor mobility (generally come in Rhinos).
    
  • Counter: Mephiston is the easy hard-counter. Otherwise Demolishers, Plasma, Melta, PFs or PAxes w/Furious Charge. Be careful of melee, the edge is with them because even with lower numbers, T5 and Poisoned (meaning re-roll wounds) make up for their I3.
    

  [*]Nurgle Mutilator: Runs Solo for Best Effect. 65pt for T5, 2W, 2+/5++, Hatred: Marines. Can choose double-weapons of whatever melee he wants (or close enough). Used exactly like a Lone-Wolf except he can and will Deepstrike. Causes high disruption, difficult to ignore in your backfield. Easy source of Linebreaker.

  • Weakness: Only 2W and 5++ against low-AP. No shooting. Turn 3 charge at very soonest. Slow and Purposeful-- cannot run or Sweeping Advance. Must switch melee weapon type every turn (not much of a problem though).
    
  • Counter: MSU with 2 plasmaguns. Otherwise can cause disporportionate disruption/diversion/attention. Easy to defeat, but hard to defeat economically.
    

Other than that, I feel the other items within the new CSM codex play out just like any other MEQ Codex. Any other thoughts?

 

So in short, always bring Mephiston? ;)

[CitadelArmyGuy]

So in short, always bring Mephiston? :devil:

Well.... yea he does quite a lot against CSM (anything with 2+ Save has poor mobility).

 

Mephiston+Stormraven(s) covers most of your bases against the CSM. Both from Theory-hammer and Experience.

[benjak]

So in short, always bring Mephiston? :devil:

Well.... yea he does quite a lot against CSM (anything with 2+ Save has poor mobility).

 

Mephiston+Stormraven(s) covers most of your bases against the CSM. Both from Theory-hammer and Experience.

 

Cool. I'm just starting out with BA (an edition too late perhaps?) and your guide confirms my feeling that Mephiston + Storm Raven seems to be the winning combo for BA Army lists against most armies.

[Morticon]

So in short, always bring Mephiston? :D

Well.... yea he does quite a lot against CSM (anything with 2+ Save has poor mobility).

 

Mephiston+Stormraven(s) covers most of your bases against the CSM. Both from Theory-hammer and Experience.

 

Cool. I'm just starting out with BA (an edition too late perhaps?) and your guide confirms my feeling that Mephiston + Storm Raven seems to be the winning combo for BA Army lists against most armies.

 

I think for tourney play this is part of the strongest core available to us.

[Ushtarador]

Mephiston ist just ridiculously good against most stuff of their new codex. Lord on Juggernaut? check. Bikers? check. Fiends? check. MEQ? check. As long as you keep him away from 2+save-stuff, he almost wins by himself ^^

[darth_giles]

Mephiston+Stormraven(s) covers most of your bases against the CSM. Both from Theory-hammer and Experience.

Ok, one minor rules question. Where does it say that flyers don't need Skyfire to shoot at one another? I haven't been able to find it.

[Kickrock]

@ Giles ; BRB, page 81 under special rules. It states that "Flyers can chose wether or not to use the Skyfire special rule at the start of each shooting phase."

 

But back on topic, Mephiston is a beast. Tranfixing Gaze terrifies most enemy Characters. But he suffers from what most all other Librarians and Power Weapon wielding models suffer from; AP3 in Melee. Granted, we're seeing Chaos Lords on bikes more often than anything else, Terminators and other 2+ models arn't exactly scared of Mepheston. Against Purifiers, Grey Hunter/Long Fang, ASM, Foot Chaos, Eldar and DE he's scary. But against Hammernators, Paladins, MegaNobz and Terminator Lords he's not much of a threat.

 

That being said, thats only 250 points of your list. Nothing says you HAVE to charge into those models with him and you've still got a lot to work with otherwise. He is still a model I need to break back out and start playing with.

[Sokhar]

@CAG: The one thing I'd add is that I'm not sure that Mephiston vs Khârn is quite as lopsided as written. The issue is the way his rule (blessing of Khorne, I think?) is written with regards to psychic powers and force weapons. It simply says that if Khârn takes an unsaved wound from a force weapon, that it cannot inflict instant death. Doesn't specify that it only applies to instant death via psychic test, or instant death because the force weapon also happened to have strength 10. Khârn failing 3 invul saves isn't THAT unlikely, but its not quite as straightforward as the "one nick and you're dead" approach we'd normally be used to there.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

@CAG: The one thing I'd add is that I'm not sure that Mephiston vs Khârn is quite as lopsided as written. The issue is the way his rule (blessing of Khorne, I think?) is written with regards to psychic powers and force weapons. It simply says that if Khârn takes an unsaved wound from a force weapon, that it cannot inflict instant death. Doesn't specify that it only applies to instant death via psychic test, or instant death because the force weapon also happened to have strength 10. Khârn failing 3 invul saves isn't THAT unlikely, but its not quite as straightforward as the "one nick and you're dead" approach we'd normally be used to there.

An interesting line of thought, I'd generally tend to think Str10 not causing ID is a little... specious at best. Your logic has merit I can appreciate though, very interesting. However, you could simply use his Plasma Pistol instead of his Force Sword-- Meph's entire melee becomes Str10. So then all Khârn has to do is fail a single 3+ save and adios...

 

Alternately, Khârn will be sure to have an escort. One thing I've noticed about Meph is that he can choose what model he wants to charge within a unit very easily. This gives him extreme control over the challenge mechanic, since he is only a single model himself. Chaos being unable to refuse challenges is a huge problem for them here. Meph can arrange the charge so that only the Champ (and not Khârn) can accept the challenge. Then in the CSM's turn, Khârn is fixed and has to challenge. Whether Meph kills Khârn or not, he can certainly Fix him in place for quite awhile.

 

Plus Khârn is only Str6 (you didn't let him have the charge, right?). That means 6 attacks w/CA, so 5 hits and 2.5 wounds on Meph. Unless things go sour, Meph should have ample opportunity to beat the crazyman. Of course Meph will probably be previously wounded going into the fight, so I can see what you're saying Sokhar.

[Sokhar]

Heh, that's a great image.

Mephiston: Don't worry, I know his weakness! *buries his plasma pistol trigger-deep in Khârn's skull*

 

You make a good point about challenge control, however if your opponent keeps his champion right near Khârn then you might not have that luxury. Or just if Khârn and/or the champion are in the "interior" of the squad. Mephiston still can't ignore the "can't pass within 1" of an enemy model" rule in the movement phase, and has to assault the closest model when making his charge.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

You also have to think about the opponent's formation. For example, if you can tag a flank then Mephiston can clear his killzone very easily. If there are no models left standing within 3" pile-in, the enemy doesn't even get to swing. See picture: (blue circle is 2", red-line shows 3" from Champ)

All Meph has to do here is kill two models and the enemy can't even swing back at all. Since he is a single-model, Meph has a better chance of clearing his killzone than anything else in the BA codex.

However, only a bad opponent is going to let this happen. The enemy gets a vote too. The 'perfect' formation for your opponent to use in this case would be the following:

Here, Meph would have to tag the Champ or the lone other model in order to avoid the Khârn challenge. This formation can be changed to put everything inside 2" from Khârn, but that would be excessively clumped together (unless you have no templates in which case it makes perfect sense).

[knife&fork]

The 'perfect' formation for your opponent to use in this case would be the following:

 

My my, that looks like a nice way to put the opponent between a rock and a hard place if you have, let's say a frag cannon dread, lurking in reserves. :D

 

I'm tempted to put Mephiston in my current list now, but I used him in so much in 5th that I really want to to see something else on the board.