BA Post-CSM Codex

[Sokhar]

I'm tempted to put him in my current list now, but I used him in so much in 5th that I really want to to see something else on the board.

 

Him referring to Mephiston, I'm assuming? I love that guy, never get sick of fielding him. One of my regular opponents has said that Mephiston is almost like a mascot for me, and he thinks of me whenever he sees or hears about the model. lol. Storm Ravens have kinda jumped up as my new favorite model to have on the table in 6th ed though. So the only thing better than Mephiston and a Storm Raven would be two Ravens. :down:

[Ushtarador]

So the only thing better than Mephiston and a Storm Raven would be two Ravens. :)

 

Two ravens AND mephiston, now we're good :lol:

[Sokhar]

That's what I meant, apparently just didn't make that clear enough.

 

Only slightly related, but while pondering the best use of allies for BA, I have to say I've been struck by how potentially awesome the Grey Knight Storm Raven can be. For an extra 25 points and the loss of Bloodstrike Missiles (the one really significant downside) you get more anti-infantry oriented missiles that also annihilate psykers, upgrade your Assault Cannon to a Psycannon (effectively), and get strength 5 Hurricane Bolters. That's just mean.

[darth_giles]

So I keep seeing mention of a few specific units:

 

Prescience Libbies and Sangies

ML Havocs

Plasma Rifles (not pistols), possibly in RASes

Stormravens

TLAC Baals

 

I'm wondering about a few other choices, though:

 

Plasma Cannon Havocs. Potentially more wounding on TEQ than ML havocs, possibly as a "second squad" choice?

Flamestorm Baals. Good for burning MEQ out of cover?

Vindicators. Probably a weapon of last-ish resort, but an S10 pie plate is hard to argue with.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Plasma Devs work. Vindies are very inconsistent (awesome when scatter is nice to you, crap otherwise), but is such a threat that it cannot be ignore by your opponent. Flame Baals don't really work. BBQ one squad then dies to krak grenades in assault.

[Demoulius]

Plasma Devs work. Vindies are very inconsistent (awesome when scatter is nice to you, crap otherwise), but is such a threat that it cannot be ignore by your opponent. Flame Baals don't really work. BBQ one squad then dies to krak grenades in assault.

id like to say that Vindies can work VERY well! If nothing else they will serve as a huge firemagnet to your opponent and if you shield them with other things like rhinos or other predators it can make your opponent VERY nervous :P

 

last match my vindi killed 5 of my opponents 6 terminators (including Typhys :P ), 7 plaguemarines, wounded 2 obliderators (sadly passed their invunerable saves) and wrecked a rhino B) it took an obscene amount of anti tank firepower but only lost a single HP due to the fact that I ensured it had cover 9 out of 10 times. When it was in direct fire it was taking it on its AV13 front.

 

On the other hand ive also seen it die to my opponents first shot in a game... Its a game of dice after all so results may vary. But the sheer mind games you can play with it always makes it worth it imho ;) sometimes the damage it will do is very minimal even on a direct hit (3 or 4 assault marines arent a huge chunk out of an army) but dont tell your opponent that ;)

[Deschenus Maximus]

That's basically what I was trying to get across. Sometime they will be amazing, others they will be meh. But because their POTENTIAL for damage is so high, your opponent just can't ignore it.

[Demoulius]

Ah, I see what you mean. Misunderstood what you meant there brother :)

 

On another note, they can ID alot of nurgle things that arent T6 B) my opponent has a full blown nurgle army and the thing terrified him ^_^ which was even further confirmed when he ID'ed Typhus :wub:

[darth_giles]

So my tentative list looks something like this:

 

Prescience Libby (jumping)

 

Maxed RAS with Plasma, Sarge has PW (lance?)

Maxed RAS with Plasma, Sarge has PW

Maxed RAS with Plasma, Sarge has PW

Tac Squad with Rhino?

 

Sanguinaries

 

Stormraven

ML Devs (Rhino? Razorback?)

Plasma Devs (Rhino? Razorback?)

 

Any thoughts?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Prescience out, Shield/Rage in.

Plasma out, melta in.

Forget Rhino on Tacs. A single vehicle just dies.

When you say Sanguinaries, do you mean Priests or Guards? The former is good, the latter is alright but nowhere near as important as Priests.

[darth_giles]

Prescience out, Shield/Rage in.

Plasma out, melta in.

Forget Rhino on Tacs. A single vehicle just dies.

When you say Sanguinaries, do you mean Priests or Guards? The former is good, the latter is alright but nowhere near as important as Priests.

Priests. Not Guard. Naturally, I forget that there's two possible "Sanguinaries." Not that I don't intend to do Sanguinary Guard at some point. Maybe something involving pumpkins...

 

Do you mean meltaguns or melta pistols? Or does it matter much?

 

Also, no commentary on lances vs. swords for aggressive BA?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Meltaguns. Cheaper and more range.

 

TBH, none of my sergeants carry any wargear except meltabombs anymore. If I had to pick between the two... I might give the nod to lances, actually, though I think running the math of lance vs single lightning claw might be a worthwhile endeavour.

[Roma]

Sang priests hardly payed their points anyway, just get more marines.

I think jump packs are great in 6th, as is everything that doesn't rely on transport vehicles. Plus they have their own flyer.

[Roma]

Double post sorry.

[DominicJ]

Vindicators.

Just take three of them.

 

They were may favourite toy with guard, and are at least as much fun in mech angels :huh:

[Demoulius]

Sang priests hardly payed their points anyway, just get more marines.

I think jump packs are great in 6th, as is everything that doesn't rely on transport vehicles. Plus they have their own flyer.

B) what sang priests are you using? Theyre worth their weight in gold in my games....

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Sang priests hardly payed their points anyway, just get more marines.

:lol: what sang priests are you using? Theyre worth their weight in gold in my games....

IMO Priests are highly situational.

 

If they are providing FnP to at least 25 wounds, they are worth it [Priests hypothetically cost roughly around about what 5 more wounds would cost--- ie 5 ASM (JP Priest) or 5 Tacs (Foot Priest)]

 

So 15 wounds with Priest is not as good as 20 wounds, but 25 wounds with Priest is better than 30 wounds.

 

(Note: 20 ASM + Mephiston + 3 Attackbikes = 31 Wounds. Totally worth a Priest)

 

Also, if you are only utilizing the FnP and not employing the other half of his abilities (meaning Furious Charge) then he's not as good value. That's what makes me think a Sang Priest is best for an Assault or Counter-Assault Army List. If you aren't charging, you aren't using half of what you pay for.

[darth_giles]

Also, if you are only utilizing the FnP and not employing the other half of his abilities (meaning Furious Charge) then he's not as good value. That's what makes me think a Sang Priest is best for an Assault or Counter-Assault Army List. If you aren't charging, you aren't using half of what you pay for.

You can also put a PW on him, but it might not be worth the points cost. My tentative list has them carrying Power Lances like the Sarges.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

You can also put a PW on him, but it might not be worth the points cost. My tentative list has them carrying Power Lances like the Sarges.

I have 2 Sanguinary Priest builds that I feel are optimal. Not a hard and fast rule by any means. But IMO:

 

1. 50pts to provide FnP to a firebase as cheaply as possible. Only worth it if said firebase is 20+ wounds in size as previously mentioned.
   
2. 90pts for Jump Pack and Power Axe. Str6 on the charge is really great. Also you will never willingly commit your Priest to a challenge, therefore the Unwieldy matters less. Plus the AP2 can save your bacon against weakened Heavy Infantry. Finally, a Jumper Priest always deserves a PW of some kind-- if WS4 Sergeant deserves a PW, then WS5 Priest deserves one more.
   

Now, I'm not a giant fan of Lances. They are far worse in any protracted combat. Also, while BA usually get the charge, sometimes you can't guarantee it-- in which case you just wasted 15pts. A Lance is practically the same thing as a free Chainsword if you are getting charged by the majority of things in this game that seek melee.

[DominicJ]

Two Assault Squads or Three Tacs works for me

[knife&fork]

IMO Priests are highly situational.

....

 

If they are providing FnP to at least 25 wounds, they are worth it [Priests hypothetically cost roughly around about what 5 more wounds would cost--- ie 5 ASM (JP Priest) or 5 Tacs (Foot Priest)]

 

Totally agree on priests being situational but I think there are some other factors worth a closer look.

 

1.

You've already touched on this but 'expensive wounds' like terminators, characters or anything unusual is worth more than assault or tactical marines.

 

2.

Your meta. How many of the unsaved wounds you suffer will you actually get to save with FnP? If your marines are going to eat a lot of S8+ attacks that priest isn't worth as much.

 

3.

Squad size. If you are spamming smaller squads, <10 men, is it really worth covering them with FnP instead of just taking more units or bumping model count? Not only a question of target saturation but also the fact that the majority of FnP rolls will fail and a smaller unit will get wiped out or at least get reduced to a point where they are no longer effective.

 

4.

Is sticking together to utilize the 6" bubble going to affect your tactics?

 

 

While all aspects are connected for me personally nr 4 is the big one. It's very difficult to find a balance between spending enough on priests and spending too much.

[Deschenus Maximus]

IMO Priests are highly situational.

 

If they are providing FnP to at least 25 wounds, they are worth it [Priests hypothetically cost roughly around about what 5 more wounds would cost--- ie 5 ASM (JP Priest) or 5 Tacs (Foot Priest)]

 

So 15 wounds with Priest is not as good as 20 wounds, but 25 wounds with Priest is better than 30 wounds.

 

(Note: 20 ASM + Mephiston + 3 Attackbikes = 31 Wounds. Totally worth a Priest)

 

Also, if you are only utilizing the FnP and not employing the other half of his abilities (meaning Furious Charge) then he's not as good value. That's what makes me think a Sang Priest is best for an Assault or Counter-Assault Army List. If you aren't charging, you aren't using half of what you pay for.

 

After math-hammering it out, I can't say I agree with the first part. 10 ASM will benefit from a JP Priest enough to be worth it. You will do more damage on the charge than you would with the equivalent in extra bodies, and defensively, you break even after 9 unsaved wounds (6 dead after FnP). You drag behind a little bit in post-charge combat, admittedly.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

3. Squad size. If you are spamming smaller squads, <10 men, is it really worth covering them with FnP instead of just taking more units or bumping model count? Not only a question of target saturation but also the fact that the majority of FnP rolls will fail and a smaller unit will get wiped out or at least get reduced to a point where they are no longer effective.

 

4. Is sticking together to utilize the 6" bubble going to affect your tactics?

These two points are really great, and I will also completely agree that #4 is by far the most important.

 

Priests are terribly hard to use within constructs of an MSU list, which sometimes your 20 ASM must become due to mission/opponent/misc other factors.

 

I hate Combat Squadding my ASM just for this reason-- Force Multiplication is very difficult for BA MSU, there are almost no 'Army-wide Effects' abilities. Since I am loathe to combat squad my ASM, that limits my strategic flexibility for certain.

 

However, it improves their tactical flexibility by increasing their ability (component of Tactical Flexibility is the range of targets they can engage)--- with FnP and FC they will survive better and hit harder, hence able to tackle heavier targets.

 

But unless done correctly, Priests can be a terrible pointsink. In 5th they were auto-include for ASM lists because they gave 3 bonuses: FnP, +1 Str and +1 Init. Now it's just the two former. Rather than auto-include, a deliberate decision must be made in correlation to the rest of your list.

[Sokhar]

In 5th they were auto-include for ASM lists because they gave 3 bonuses: FnP, +1 Str and +1 Init. Now it's just the two former. Rather than auto-include, a deliberate decision must be made in correlation to the rest of your list.

 

Very true, not to mention the changes to FNP itself to be more broadly useful, but less effective. And I think a lot of us, given a preference, would choose the initiative bump over strength, so effectively 6th ed removed what I would consider the #2 benefit of priests, and in some cases nerfed the number 1 benefit.

 

I still take a priest in all my lists, in part because it seems a defining feature of Blood Angels, but each of my lists also starts with 20 jump pack Assault Marines, so I consider it a worthwhile expense. I'd have to play at significantly higher points (and thus run more BA) to consider a second priest. And at the moment my trend has been to max out on allied Troops rather than add more BA jumpers.

 

As an aside, if you're able to spare a roll on the Biomancy table, you've got a 1 in 6 chance of rolling up Endurance and being able to spread around additional durability. Allied Grey Hunters with Feel No Pain and Relentless would be sweet, and letting Mephiston run off on his own with Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die (my opponents already say that of him! :lol: ) is just too cute.

[TheSauce]

I've been a huge fan of Priests in my games. Of course I play against a lot of plasma (Guard), but it's pretty easy to grab 5+ cover in 6th, and adding FNP essentially gives you a 5+ re-rollable save, which is nothing to scoff at. Not to mention that every time you bring a marine back from an unsaved wound your opponent cries a little.

 

That said, I've only been bringing 1 priest at < 1500 points. With a jump pack and smart unit positioning, you can spread out a single FNP bubble to a lot of units. I've had some luck as well having a jump priest and 5-man assault squad hanging around my devastators and tac squad, providing close range support (I usually combat squad the assaults to get a double-melta suicide unit).