Tiger9gamer Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Alright, Decided to start making the origin, kinda shaky but first time for this. Decided to make this piece by piece. you can read ideas for this here!! http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=265413 Origins The Origins of the Iron Knights can be traced back to the Legion Praetor Celph, a Defender of the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy. Although little is known of the captain, one thing that stands out in the imperial records is his sense of honor and how it came at odds with his Primarch, Rogal Dorn. During the height of the siege, Celph was receiving desperate cries of help and pleas for sanctuary against the rampaging Emperor’s Children who hunted after the civilians on Terra. The praetorian was outraged, leaving his post to confront Dorn and demand an explanation for not providing protection to the people of Terra, and threatening to take his company off the walls to come to their aid. Although it was an empty promise, The stone mask on Rogal’s emotions shattered in that moment. In a rare fit of anger, Dorn spoke down the Praetor’s plan, and almost came close to executing Celph on the spot was it not for the intervention of Sigismund. In that moment of emotions, Celph saw the weight of command in his eyes, the toll it took on his father, and his duty in the legion. Celph returned to the walls, doing as he was commanded and repelling the attackers. As he fought he could hear the echos and screams of the people, even with the vox system jammed. After the Heresy and the events of the Iron Cage, Celph was given command of a new force, a splinter army of the Imperial Fists. The pain of being helpless still burned in his soul, and he, Along with his newly formed Iron Knights, took a vow at the feet of Rogal Dorn. Their Creed dedicated themselves to the protection of the Imperium, and it’s servants, even in the most hopeless of causes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 While I'm always in it for the story, I can tell you now that there will be many objections to having such intense involvement from canon characters/legions during canon events. Maybe if you took one or two steps down the totem pole, such as a captain under Dorn's command instead of Dorn himself, it would be more plausible. To be honest, though, I don't see why not. Only issue I have is the tie in to the Chapter origin. You're establishing the Iron Knights as second founding. I'm pretty sure those are all accounted for, especially since the founding of the Iron Knights was no secret. Also, it seems unusual/unclear why Celph would be given his own force after the Heresy. The only line I can draw is that Dorn pitied him for his suffering during that enagement/siege. On the other hand, Celph's superiors were clearly in a rage over what he did, disobedience and all that, so how does basically: How does 1) Celph anguished by loss of life and 2) Dorn's anger at his insubordination translate into leading a new Chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 While I'm always in it for the story, I can tell you now that there will be many objections to having such intense involvement from canon characters/legions during canon events. Maybe if you took one or two steps down the totem pole, such as a captain under Dorn's command instead of Dorn himself, it would be more plausible. To be honest, though, I don't see why not. Only issue I have is the tie in to the Chapter origin. You're establishing the Iron Knights as second founding. I'm pretty sure those are all accounted for, especially since the founding of the Iron Knights was no secret. Also, it seems unusual/unclear why Celph would be given his own force after the Heresy. The only line I can draw is that Dorn pitied him for his suffering during that enagement/siege. On the other hand, Celph's superiors were clearly in a rage over what he did, disobedience and all that, so how does basically: How does 1) Celph anguished by loss of life and 2) Dorn's anger at his insubordination translate into leading a new Chapter? I thought it wasn't that conflicting with cannon, but I can see how it is grating X-X how would you fix it, since my original ideas arn't all that good? and for the question, I don't really know for it.... help to make it better? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Not sure that all of the 2nd Founding chapters are named as of yet ... just remember all the UM chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 29, 2012 Author Share Posted November 29, 2012 Lexicanum says unknown, but the 40k Wiki states that they are second founding. Actually, the wiki has a lot more info on them. How would you say should happen with the civilians and the orders? maybe not make dorn angry, but tell Celph they can't help everyone, and to follw orders? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted November 29, 2012 Share Posted November 29, 2012 Lexicanum says unknown, but the 40k Wiki states that they are second founding. Actually, the wiki has a lot more info on them. How would you say should happen with the civilians and the orders? maybe not make dorn angry, but tell Celph they can't help everyone, and to follw orders? I would say just build off one of their reactions. Do you want Celph to be the driving factor? Play on the emotional impact of not saving those lives and say he lobbied to assume leadership of one of the newly founded chapters. Or maybe he actually took the troops already under his command and left to do some good. Perhaps he was valuable enough to Dorn, or Dorn regretted what happened enough to keep Celph's good intentions from being labeled renegade/heresy. Another possibility is that after it all Dorn recognized Celph's fervor as a value of leadership, and recommends him. Any of that help the creative juices? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 I would say just build off one of their reactions. Do you want Celph to be the driving factor? Play on the emotional impact of not saving those lives and say he lobbied to assume leadership of one of the newly founded chapters. Or maybe he actually took the troops already under his command and left to do some good. Perhaps he was valuable enough to Dorn, or Dorn regretted what happened enough to keep Celph's good intentions from being labeled renegade/heresy. Another possibility is that after it all Dorn recognized Celph's fervor as a value of leadership, and recommends him. Any of that help the creative juices? I got it! There where marines of the imperial fists from terra, correct? What if Celph is heartbroken that the people of his home planet are being slaughtered en mass, and makes the threat to leave the walls? Dorn doesnt get angry, but calmly talks down the marine. Then I guess He could volunteer to split from the legion, and dorn pitied him enough to allow it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I would say just build off one of their reactions. Do you want Celph to be the driving factor? Play on the emotional impact of not saving those lives and say he lobbied to assume leadership of one of the newly founded chapters. Or maybe he actually took the troops already under his command and left to do some good. Perhaps he was valuable enough to Dorn, or Dorn regretted what happened enough to keep Celph's good intentions from being labeled renegade/heresy. Another possibility is that after it all Dorn recognized Celph's fervor as a value of leadership, and recommends him. Any of that help the creative juices? I got it! There where marines of the imperial fists from terra, correct? What if Celph is heartbroken that the people of his home planet are being slaughtered en mass, and makes the threat to leave the walls? Dorn doesnt get angry, but calmly talks down the marine. Then I guess He could volunteer to split from the legion, and dorn pitied him enough to allow it. Sounds perfectly workable. Just let it flow smooth and that sounds like an origin story! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3249886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 1, 2012 Author Share Posted December 1, 2012 Alright, reworked the first paragraph a bit. tell me what you think: The Origins of the Iron Knights can be traced back to the Legion Praetor Celph, one of the Defenders of the Imperial Palace during the Horus Heresy. Celph Was born and raised on Terra, having been taught by his father that respecting life is an honor, not a sign of weakness. Before Celph entered the trials to become part of the VII Legion, His father had told him “The Astartes are made to protect humanity above all else.” Even with indoctrination, Celph would never forget his duty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3250996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 bump? what do you guys think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3253342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I like the new stuff, but while my fluff background doesn't quite go that far back in imperial history, I'm not sure the method for creating marines (you have to start when they're young) was different then. So it might be much to say he was raised on Terra...unless you can count grooming for implantation and indoctrination an upbringing XD. However, if he only had those short years with a family and they still hammered in this doctrine, the story is stronger for it. Can someone clear up the age boundaries for recruits? I've seen several IA's here mention around 6 years old, but other outside sources saying implantation doesn't start til around 12. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3253388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think 12 years old could be acceptable. ^-^ now, what to do about the rest of it, like how he heard what happened on terra or his argument with dorn... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3254983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I think 12 years old could be acceptable. ^-^ now, what to do about the rest of it, like how he heard what happened on terra or his argument with dorn... Keep in mind that that's just the purported age to begin implantation. Who knows how long they're kept and trained and tested before that. But still, from that age range it's probably not unreasonable to say he was raised there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3255019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 11, 2012 Author Share Posted December 11, 2012 alright, sounds good. but I have been thinking of the beggining. maybe I should scratch the horus heresy idea and start at the second founding? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3258523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messor Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Up to you. I'm inclined to think that would be easier, in terms of open fluff, but you'd have a decent amount of rewriting to do as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3258579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger9gamer Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 okay, here is the second attempt, forgoing the self insert stuff. Origins The Iron Knights where created shortly after the formation of both the Crimson Fists and the Black Templars. The fist Chapter Master, Celph, took it upon himself to forge the chapter as defenders of the weak and helpless in a time where things looked the bleakest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/266770-ia-iron-knights/#findComment-3263580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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