Wilytank Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 One of my Hunter squads lost combat against a Mauler Fiend and ran, but he caught me in the sweep. On the next turn's assault phase, he claimed the Mauler Fiend got an extra attack for catching my guys in the sweep, saying he basically charged into a whole new combat. I called BS at first, eventually let it slide so the game could go on, but I'm still not positive about this at all. I haven't found anything in the rule book underneath sweeping advances or And They Shall Know No Fear that says the sweeper gets an extra attack for another charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Well according to the BRB, if the winner's total(Initiative + Dice Roll) is equal to or greater than the foe's, the falling back unit is caught by the Sweeping Advance and destroyed." So if that's what happened, the unit of Long Fangs should have died so there would have been no need for a Charge Sub-phase. If you won the dice roll, you were supposed to Fall Back 2D6" and he could Consolidate up to D6" in any direction, but had to stop 1" from all enemy models. So if he came close enough to get back into combat with your Long Fangs, wouldn't it have to be another, new Assault Phase that starts with a new Charge Sub-phase since they were no longer in base-to-base combat and at least an inch away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilytank Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 Well according to the BRB, if the winner's total(Initiative + Dice Roll) is equal to or greater than the foe's, the falling back unit is caught by the Sweeping Advance and destroyed." So if that's what happened, the unit of Long Fangs should have died so there would have been no need for a Charge Sub-phase. If you won the dice roll, you were supposed to Fall Back 2D6" and he could Consolidate up to D6" in any direction, but had to stop 1" from all enemy models. So if he came close enough to get back into combat with your Long Fangs, wouldn't it have to be another, new Assault Phase that starts with a new Charge Sub-phase since they were no longer in base-to-base combat and at least an inch away? 1) Space Wolves are Loyalist Marines meaning we've got And They Shall Know No Fear and thus are not destroyed by sweeping advances. 2) We do the Sweeping check before we roll fallback distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 We do the Sweeping check before we roll fallback distance. Which happens first, Consolidating or Fallback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilytank Posted November 30, 2012 Author Share Posted November 30, 2012 We do the Sweeping check before we roll fallback distance. Which happens first, Consolidating or Fallback? Fallback, but that's beside the point; that really shouldn't matter because if they get caught in the sweep, they technically move nowhere except for the end of combat pile-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 losng combat and being caught in a sweep with ATSKNF means the models arent moved. the bonus attack for charging only applies when a model charges, catching a unit with a sweep isnt charging, so the guy in question is very much wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 +1 to what GC08 said. Its great being a loyalist :teehee: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 /thirded Guy was pulling a fast one. you didn't get an extra attack in in 4th or 5th as well for catching a Marine unit with ATSKNF in a sweeping advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 ATSKNF, makes it pretty clear that instead of being destroyed they simply continue the combat. The simple response to this guys claim is to point out he didn't charge, therefore no charge bonus. Invite him to show you the rule saying he gets bonus attacks from sweeping advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yep, show him the "And they shall know no fear" rule. It says they continue to fight normally. Hence no new combat, it is the same one that continue. So no bonus for the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy12009 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 I don't have a codex in front of me, but I thought a unit with ATSKNF that's caught in a sweeping advance counts as fearless. In that case, you loose combat but nothing happens. Nobody moves and you continue to fight as if you passed your morale check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 yeah, if you lose and they catch you, it is like if you were fearless (although the word fearless is not use in the ATSKNF entry). It is only if you lose and they don't catch you that it is different as you have to fall back and automatically regroup at the start of your next turn (and move 3 inch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 Yep. As a reminder, sometimes it is best to let the losing opponent run away, especially if your turn is next...then, yes, you can re-charge a running enemy in your turn and get a charge bonus as normal. PLUS if they do not have ATSKNF, and are running, if you hit em' in assault they try to rally; failure means elimination.... To the OP - yeah, they other guy misled you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephane4985 Posted November 30, 2012 Share Posted November 30, 2012 except that if you kill them in your turn, you are left in the open for your opponent shooting phase, unlike if you sweep them and have a full turn to do other thing, get to cover. And you don't shoot by overwatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeger Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Yep. As a reminder, sometimes it is best to let the losing opponent run away, especially if your turn is next...then, yes, you can re-charge a running enemy in your turn and get a charge bonus as normal. PLUS if they do not have ATSKNF, and are running, if you hit em' in assault they try to rally; failure means elimination.... To the OP - yeah, they other guy misled you. I was under the impression that making a sweeping advance was compulsory. BRB page 26, Sweeping Advances "When a unit falls back from combat, the victors make a Sweeping Advance, attempting to cut down their fleeing foes." I never thought the above text left room for a choice in the matter. Is this not so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Yep. As a reminder, sometimes it is best to let the losing opponent run away, especially if your turn is next... You cannot 'choose' to let anyone getting away, if you check the rules for sweeping advance you'll see there is no option for you to do it if you feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I was under the impression that making a sweeping advance was compulsory. BRB page 26, Sweeping Advances "When a unit falls back from combat, the victors make a Sweeping Advance, attempting to cut down their fleeing foes." I never thought the above text left room for a choice in the matter. Is this not so? Are you referring to Ming's post? Sweeping advance, if succesful, is "compulsory", yes. You can't choose to let the enemy run off. As for ATSKNF, it overrides Sweeping Advance when the marines are losing in that instead of an actual Sweeping Advance happening, the marines stay in combat rather than "successfully" falling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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