Why wheren't the Wolves at Isstvan

[Arkangilos]

I thought the wolves got sent around the same time that Istvaan three began. And when the people asked Horus, "Well what about the Thousand Sons?" Horus did the whole, "Oh, I wouldn't worry about them, I've got the wolves on them" thing, implying that he had helped tricked Russ into attacking the Thousand Sons

[Kol Saresk]

Actually I don't recall the Thousand Sons really being mention until A Thousand Sons really. Might have been a footnote type-thing somewhere. But according to the "timeline" laid out so far, Prospero happened well before Istvaan III. So maybe it was more of a "That's been dealt with." comment more than a "Working on it right now." comment.

[Raven Angel]

There was something in Fulgrum and Battle of the Abyss had a Thousand Son. There are 2 things that bug me. First as Warmaster Horus should have been at Nikea. As the overal commander he would definitely be in a position to speak to the handycaps that not using the pykers would cause. Second if the warning came that early before Isstvan III why didn't the order come from Horus or better yet since Magnus called out Horus would he, not Russ, would have been the logical choice to crush Magnus.

[Kol Saresk]

Was Battle for the Abyss before A Thousand Sons? My mistake. Hmm, don't really recall any mention in Fulgrim.

[Raven Angel]

Was Battle for the Abyss before A Thousand Sons? My mistake. Hmm, don't really recall any mention in Fulgrim.

 

Yes Abyss is 8, A Thousand Sons is 12

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah, I noticed. Hence the "my mistake" bit. :)

[DarthMarko]

There was something in Fulgrum and Battle of the Abyss had a Thousand Son. There are 2 things that bug me. First as Warmaster Horus should have been at Nikea. As the overal commander he would definitely be in a position to speak to the handycaps that not using the pykers would cause. Second if the warning came that early before Isstvan III why didn't the order come from Horus or better yet since Magnus called out Horus would he, not Russ, would have been the logical choice to crush Magnus.

Who said that Horus had a pro-librarian stance? Even if he had it - he wouldn't speak in defence of Magnus (Sanguinius didn't)...

And I' dont know from which source is that Russ was present on Terra when Magnus fethed up WG...Can someone tell me?

[Kol Saresk]

There isn't a source that puts the Wolves at Terra although the The Outcast Dead which took place on Terra made a huge deal about the Wolves when Magnus' clusterbomb happened.

 

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

And I don't think Horus was exactly pro-Librarian. I don't think he was anti-Librarian either, but there was no mention of Librarians in the Sons of Horus in the Heresy series. Although for some reason I feel like something was mentioned in Horus Rising about the Edict of Nikea and a general mention of the Librarians. Not sure so I would have to look it up since I haven't read it in forever.

[Grimtooth]

There isn't a source that puts the Wolves at Terra although the The Outcast Dead which took place on Terra made a huge deal about the Wolves when Magnus' clusterbomb happened.

 

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

And I don't think Horus was exactly pro-Librarian. I don't think he was anti-Librarian either, but there was no mention of Librarians in the Sons of Horus in the Heresy series. Although for some reason I feel like something was mentioned in Horus Rising about the Edict of Nikea and a general mention of the Librarians. Not sure so I would have to look it up since I haven't read it in forever.

 

IIRC, the Index Astartes articles for the Space Wolves and the Thousand Sons has Russ present when Magnus delivers his message and screws everything up.

 

Yup, just checked and Russ is referenced as being at the side of the Emperor when the message is received and the other it roughly puts him on Terra.

[Raven Angel]

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

That was kinda my point. If it is eraly like you say wouldn't Horus be a better choice to send? After all it is his honor being questioned by Magnus.

 

And I don't think Horus was exactly pro-Librarian. I don't think he was anti-Librarian either, but there was no mention of Librarians in the Sons of Horus in the Heresy series. Although for some reason I feel like something was mentioned in Horus Rising about the Edict of Nikea and a general mention of the Librarians. Not sure so I would have to look it up since I haven't read it in forever.

 

Truth is thae never say but the XVIth Legion has the reputation of preferring to use every weapon at their disposal. I cant see Horus, especially having just gotten command of everything giving one of those weapons up without a fight.

[yhta]

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

That was kinda my point. If it is eraly like you say wouldn't Horus be a better choice to send? After all it is his honor being questioned by Magnus.

 

And I don't think Horus was exactly pro-Librarian. I don't think he was anti-Librarian either, but there was no mention of Librarians in the Sons of Horus in the Heresy series. Although for some reason I feel like something was mentioned in Horus Rising about the Edict of Nikea and a general mention of the Librarians. Not sure so I would have to look it up since I haven't read it in forever.

 

Truth is thae never say but the XVIth Legion has the reputation of preferring to use every weapon at their disposal. I cant see Horus, especially having just gotten command of everything giving one of those weapons up without a fight.

 

because it he send horus maybe magnus will atack him or something. he wants magnus alive so he send russ. i can imagine that the emperor knows that if magnus do anything strange russ will atack him without doubt. it will be a perfect plan except for the whole "daddy wants magnus dead" thing. but hey. it happens

 

for me horus is pragmatist enought to use librarians and at the same time don`t show simpathy for them. he is the most political primarch after all and he know better than anyone how to keep is look as neutral is possible

[DarthMarko]

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

That was kinda my point. If it is eraly like you say wouldn't Horus be a better choice to send? After all it is his honor being questioned by Magnus.

 

Let's see :

 

The Emperor commands the loyalty of millions of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Astartes warriors. His battle fleets reach across the stars from one side of the galaxy to the other. The 63rd Expedition cannot hope to match such numbers or resources. You all know this to be the case, but even so, we have the advantage.’

‘What advantage is that?’ asked Maloghurst, exactly on cue.

‘We have the advantage of surprise. No one yet suspects us of having learned the Emperor’s true plan, and in that lies our greatest weapon.’

‘But what of Magnus?’ asked Maloghurst urgently, ‘What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?’

Horus smiled. ‘Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus’s treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was… suitably angry, and I believe I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of time and effort.’

Maloghurst returned Horus’s smile. ‘Magnus will not leave Prospero alive.’

‘No,’ agreed Horus. ‘He will not.’

 

 

[Arkangilos]

And Raven Angel, your answer was answered in Prospero Burns. I mentioned it earlier. It was when Hawser was talking to Russ and asked if the warning was sincere and Russ said that Magnus came up with basically the worst lie ever as Horus could never turn Traitor.

 

That was kinda my point. If it is eraly like you say wouldn't Horus be a better choice to send? After all it is his honor being questioned by Magnus.

 

Let's see :

 

The Emperor commands the loyalty of millions of soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Astartes warriors. His battle fleets reach across the stars from one side of the galaxy to the other. The 63rd Expedition cannot hope to match such numbers or resources. You all know this to be the case, but even so, we have the advantage.’

‘What advantage is that?’ asked Maloghurst, exactly on cue.

‘We have the advantage of surprise. No one yet suspects us of having learned the Emperor’s true plan, and in that lies our greatest weapon.’

‘But what of Magnus?’ asked Maloghurst urgently, ‘What happens when Leman Russ returns him to Terra?’

Horus smiled. ‘Calm yourself, Mal. I have already contacted my brother Russ and illuminated him with the full breadth of Magnus’s treacherous use of daemonic spells and conjurations. He was… suitably angry, and I believe I have convinced him that to return Magnus to Terra would be a waste of time and effort.’

Maloghurst returned Horus’s smile. ‘Magnus will not leave Prospero alive.’

‘No,’ agreed Horus. ‘He will not.’

 

 

 

Yes! Thank you! This is what I was talking about earlier, but I couldn't remember it completely!

[Raven Angel]

What book and where?

[Kol Saresk]

What book and where?

False Gods by Graham McNeill, page 405. Once again proof that McNeill needs to keep track of his own work.

[Vodunius]

The fan's perceived belief of the Legion being split in half was no longer necessary because a timeline was actually being given to the Heresy.

 

As a random side note the Word Bearers Index Astartes article explicitly stated in no uncertain terms that the legion was split so I'm wouldn't say 'fan's perceived belief' is the right term at all. Personally I'm still in favour of it: Lorgar's main beef was with the Emperor not Guilliman, the war may have been long but I still don't see Lorgar traipsing off to the far side of the galaxy hoping to make it back again in time for Terra.

[Kol Saresk]

I've never read the Word Bearers' IA article and that was never explained to me before now and I've said it numerous times before, so I apologize as I had no idea it was wrong. But was it split between Terra and Ultramar or was split between Istvaan and Ultramar as the BL books have suggested?

[Raven Angel]

I suspect this is a retcon so it would now be between Isstvan and Calth with the Legion redoing to wage a campaign across Ultramar with the World Eaters before the final push on to Terra

[Vodunius]

"While Kor Phaeron set his men upon Calth, Lorgar was leading the rest of the Legion against Terra."

 

However since the Ultramarines were still at Ultramar rather than halfway to Terra it would make sense for Phaerons forces to have left before Isstvan.

[Lord Ragnarok]

But Outcast Dead messes with the timeline in that all other sources state that the Wolves were sent before Isstvan III, and thus were unavailable for the Dropsite Massacre fight.

 

Right, I don't treat Outcast Dead as a retcon, only as a mistake or aberration.

[Kol Saresk]

But Outcast Dead messes with the timeline in that all other sources state that the Wolves were sent before Isstvan III, and thus were unavailable for the Dropsite Massacre fight.

 

Right, I don't treat Outcast Dead as a retcon, only as a mistake or aberration.

Well False Gods gives it the impression that it is happening at the same time as Istvaan III. And the only commonality between False Gods, A Thousand Sons and The Outcast Dead other than being published by BL, is the author. I would say editor but I have no idea if the editors were the same.

[Raven Angel]

What if Horus sicked Russ on Magnus before Magnus called his Father? It would fix almost all of the timeline problems. If we take it for granted that the forces of Chaos are playing with the timeline and Magnus arrived back at Prospero later then it appears. Horus then uses his influence with Russ to send the Wolves ahead of his actions on Isstvan III position Russ out of touch like Gilliaman and Sanginius. Then Horus cleanses his Legions on Isstvan III. Then Dorn arrives at Terra and sends troops to Isstvan V. Horus pulls out of Isstvan III, moves to Isstvan V. Kor Phaeron heads for Calth. Dropsite Massacre. Magnus tries to intervene in the events of Davin and then contacts the Emperor. Russ having assebled his legion moves on Prospero. Corax escapes Isstvan V. Logar and Magnus meet. Logar moves on Ultramar with Angron and Perturabo moves on Phall. Imperial Fists escape Phall and Word Bearers attack Calth.

[Arkangilos]

Or, Horus tricks Russ right at or right before Istvaan III, but Russ doesn't get there until Istvaan V. Horus isn't worried because Russ wont know what happened until it is already over, as Russ can't communicate back to Terra and Terra can't tell him. Therefore, he never learned that Horus was lying to him until after he had already completed Horus's plan, which is something Horus predicted, therefore he said with confidence that Russ was convinced.

 

Really, there isn't anything that throws off the timeline except for Outcast Dead.

[DarthMarko]

Or, Horus tricks Russ right at or right before Istvaan III, but Russ doesn't get there until Istvaan V. Horus isn't worried because Russ wont know what happened until it is already over, as Russ can't communicate back to Terra and Terra can't tell him. Therefore, he never learned that Horus was lying to him until after he had already completed Horus's plan, which is something Horus predicted, therefore he said with confidence that Russ was convinced.

 

Really, there isn't anything that throws off the timeline except for Outcast Dead.

 

Yep,just ignore the timeline from "OD" and everything fits well...There is no need to complicate any further...

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

except the presence of the Custodians...Horus doesnt have the authority to order them anywhere.

 

as they were with the Wolves, the Emperor (or Malcador maybe...not sure if he can command them) had to send the Wolves to Prospero.

 

WLK