Help with Chosen

[nurglez]

I'd still run chosen as 6man, 5 plasma 1 combi plasma squad. 12 shots within 12 is rather nice, for an extra 28 points :o

 

I've received several boon rolls now from my combi plasma plague marine champion. My last game he rolled double 6's to hit, and put both shots into a grey knight justicar hiding near the rear of the squad, who promptly failed 1 look out sir roll and died ;)

 

Havocs are cheaper plasma suicide, and I have used them as such in previous editions. They are one of few units packing long range heavy weapons, and also give up a bonus victory point in 1/6 missions. I prefer to go for autocannons/missiles/lascannons over a suicide squad, and would take terminators or chosen over havocs,

[Bonzi]

For a Plasmacide unit, 5 Plasma is better than 4 (although the Havocs could add a Combi-Plas to the AC) and for CSM the value of a Heavy slot is greater than that of an Elite slot. If you're not using all your Heavy slots and want to save points, then go for it - exploring different options should always be encouraged and advice should always be welcomed.

 

And the bolded is the point I have tried to make multiple times but the distinction seems lost on everyone and so many keep replying as if I am telling people to drop needed long range firepower just so havocs can be taken as a suicide squad.

 

FOR THE LAST TIME: I AM SAYING THAT IF YOU HAVE A HS SLOT OPEN AND WANT A PLASMA SUICIDE SQUAD, HAVOCS ARE A CHEAPER DELIVERY SYSTEM.

 

I don't know if I can make this any more simple to understand.

 

 

there is nothing missed , the hvy slots are full and if someone wants a plasma unit , then he has to take chosen . there is no other way .

 

Funny. I participate on multiple 40k forums and have seen many many lists where HS is not maxed, thus your absolute statement is proven for the hot air it is. Last time I checked the Chaos book was a codex with multiple options, not a single list handed out by decree that everyone plays.

 

Should the HS be full and loaded with long range? Most likely yes. Long range is hard to come by in the codex and the HS slots are generally hotly contested. However, this is not an absolute and there is merit in speaking of options because someone somewhere who isn't you may be using a list where they have an open HS slot and a desire to outflank plasma. It is ok to speak of non-tourney options in threads not specifically targeted towards tourney advice. It is not my problem if you cannot understand nuance.

 

 

Havocs are cheaper plasma suicide, and I have used them as such in previous editions. They are one of few units packing long range heavy weapons, and also give up a bonus victory point in 1/6 missions. I prefer to go for autocannons/missiles/lascannons over a suicide squad, and would take terminators or chosen over havocs,

 

You bring up a reasoned and excellent response as to why Havocs would make a poor suicide squad. I had entirely forgotten the 'big guns never tire' victory conditions where HS counts as a vp. It would be dangerous to build an outflanking list with suicide havocs if you will have to scrap the plan 1/6th of the time in order to not throw vps at your opponent. Well done.

[the jeske]

Funny. I participate on multiple 40k forums and have seen many many lists where HS is not maxed, thus your absolute statement is proven for the hot air it is. Last time I checked the Chaos book was a codex with multiple options, not a single list handed out by decree that everyone plays.

it has nothing to do with funny . under 2k pts and/or without double FoC that is how the game should be played . Now of course people can make bad armies or play stuff the wrong way .To make an example , I have seen plasma guns and flamers or melta in same units in the list section even on this forum . But that doesnt make it a choice that should be made .

 

without long range support your army is dead against the 3 top armies right now . demons but the 4-5mc build and the 27/27, flyercron and IG . I dont care about bad style of game play . bad armies and bad builds dont exist for me .

 

However, this is not an absolute and there is merit in speaking of options because someone somewhere who isn't you may be using a list where they have an open HS slot and a desire to outflank plasma.

and it is stupid to do so , because for 15 pts more he can take an idential unit of the elite section without burning an important HS slot . taking long range support is not an option in 6th ed , burning long range support slots is always bad . there are 3 [without double foc] elite slots , what kind of a chaos builds has full 3 elite slots and has to take a suicide unit out of the HS slot. Doing stuff like that is as , if a SW player took BC instead of GH to take more wolfs .

[tvih]

If you want cheap suicide plasma unit why not take 5 Havocs with 4 plasma guns? Why spend points on the chosen goodies if they are just going to get shot and die the same as a cheaper havoc would?

Of course! How could I forget that everyone plays the exact same way and that everyone always has their Heavy Support maxed out. I mean, I must have gouged my eyes out so I failed to see that every single list in the Army List subforum has maxed HS. I am shamed to have strayed outside of dogma for the purposes of offering alternative thoughts.

How about just calm down? Notice those question marks in your "first" post? You asked questions. People, myself included, answered why they thought one could/"should" spend on the Chosen instead of the Havocs. So why get all up in arms about it? In your original post there was nothing about having spare HS slots. A lot of people don't have them - so why shouldn't they voice their opinion on why they thought Chosen was a better option? No one ever said you can't have your own opinion on the matter, but as said, you posed it as a question, thus expect answers. Just don't expect the answers to be the same as yours would be.

[UglyWretch]

If you want cheap suicide plasma unit why not take 5 Havocs with 4 plasma guns? Why spend points on the chosen goodies if they are just going to get shot and die the same as a cheaper havoc would?

Probably due to heavy support slots being used up by heavy weapons units like Predators, long-range Havocs and Obliterators?

 

If you want cheap suicide plasma unit why not take 5 Havocs with 4 plasma guns? Why spend points on the chosen goodies if they are just going to get shot and die the same as a cheaper havoc would?

 

Like the others have said:

Our HS slots are valueable. Our elite slots are not.

 

 

Of course! How could I forget that everyone plays the exact same way and that everyone always has their Heavy Support maxed out. I mean, I must have gouged my eyes out so I failed to see that every single list in the Army List subforum has maxed HS. I am shamed to have strayed outside of dogma for the purposes of offering alternative thoughts.

 

If you want cheap suicide plasma unit why not take 5 Havocs with 4 plasma guns? Why spend points on the chosen goodies if they are just going to get shot and die the same as a cheaper havoc would?

Probably due to heavy support slots being used up by heavy weapons units like Predators, long-range Havocs and Obliterators?

 

Or actually the fact that Havocs cannot take plasma cannons. Or that plasma guns only shoot 24". When auto cannons & heavy bolsters shoot 36" and can do most of the same.

 

I know right? I can't believe that I mentioned that Havocs could have plasma cannons! My denial is so deep I can't even see where I said it when I read my old post. And plasma guns only shooting 24"? NO WAY!? Havoc plasma guns are so different from Chosen plasma guns which can shoot all the way up to 24"! I'm so glad we established that and the fact that there are other guns that can be taken by Havocs! I can't believe how I failed to address that in a post regarding how to kit out plasma suicide units.

 

It's as if I was commenting on the fact that Chosen are more expensive for a suicide unit than Havocs and are no more survivable to shooting in spite of it...but that I wrote it in such a way that peoples knee-jerk reaction made them miss the point.

I'm with you. I suggested the same thing on another post and got told how stupid I am. I don't usually use up my Heavy Support slots. I prefer to try out something different and see if it works. At least that way if it works out it's by my skills, rather than being a sheep and just using the compulsory Tournament list just like everyone else HAS to. <_<

[Brother Ambroz]

What size games are we thinking of using 5 plas chosen with? I don't think I'd take them in games under 1250 or so but they're really nice for TEQ squads people randomly throw in.

 

Bonzi- Sheesh man, nobody's attacking you personally relax and look at these responses as discussions not arguements.

[Sception]

I wouldn't consider them in games less than 1,500. IMO, The size game that the plasma chosen are best in is the size where your HQ, Troop, Fast, Heavy, Fortification, and Ally slots are all full, but you still have points left over.

 

Unless you're running Abaddon, which changes things slightly. Given Abby's cost, I wouldn't start considering that set up until over 2k points, at which point I myself would consider an even split of PlasmaCSMs, plasma spamming chosen, and objective squatting cultists.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I know plasma chosen are the main attraction (and I admit I am tempted to model some Thousand sons with volkite weaponry for it) but I've been wondering about either a flamer squad, a multie purpose squad, (ie 2 flamers, 3 melta guns, combi either and maul on the champ plus extra dudes) or a plasma las squad just to provide ore fire support to my Thousand sons.