Zombies and Quad guns

[Gentlemanloser]

Please, don't skip the first two pages.

 

I have quoted, mulitple times, rules form the shooting phase, which state that in order to be nominated to make a shooting attack, a unit must be armed with ranged weapons.

 

Assault Terminators and Plague Zombies are not armed with any ranged weapons, so *you are unable to nominate these units to make a shooting attack*.

 

If you disagree, at least acknowledge the RAW from the Shooting Phase, and try to disprove it.

 

Edit: For completeness;

 

a unit containing models armed with ranged weapons can be nominated to make shooting attacks

 

This comes before LoS/Range checks, or choosing a target unit to shoot.

 

(And the quick and dirty work around is to attach an IC with a ranged weapon to a unit of Assault Terminators...)

[dswanick]

If a model has BS>0, it means it has the required training to fire a weapon. In no way the fact I haven't a weapon prevents me from fire the quad as for the RAW, as it doesn't prevents me from run. The zombies can fire the Quad gun.

The highlighted part is incorrect, as pointed out on Pg.1 of this thread.

"any guns used are strictly for the purpose of clubbing their victims to death."

Zombies may not make Shooting attacks because their special rules preclude it. Any Shooting attacks they may have available (including the Quadgun) are ignored.

[Azekai]

"any guns used are strictly for the purpose of clubbing their victims to death."

Zombies may not make Shooting attacks because their special rules preclude it. Any Shooting attacks they may have available (including the Quadgun) are ignored.

 

I think the real question here is whether a zombie in base contact with a quadgun gets an extra attack in the assault phase. Can it use the quadgun as a club in addition to its other hand weapon? :)

[maturin]

"any guns used are strictly for the purpose of clubbing their victims to death."

Zombies may not make Shooting attacks because their special rules preclude it. Any Shooting attacks they may have available (including the Quadgun) are ignored.

 

I think the real question here is whether a zombie in base contact with a quadgun gets an extra attack in the assault phase. Can it use the quadgun as a club in addition to its other hand weapon? :lol:

 

I vote yes, for the sheer awesomeness of the suggestion.

 

The quad gun might have the "unwieldy" special rule though. ;)

[Grimtooth]

I say no.

 

The rules for zombies tells us what they do with ranged weaponry, that is RAW. As to if they get an extra attack from it, RAI that as you please.

[alex567]

If you read the rules for plague zombies it sais, that they are chaos cultists with x y and z special rules, the cultist champion is not a cultist as such he is not a zombie as such he can operate the weaponry, and also doesn't follow the rules for plague zombies. (How I see it.)

[greatcrusade08]

thats some pretty fine hair splitting

[Jacinda]

If you read the rules for plague zombies it sais, that they are chaos cultists with x y and z special rules, the cultist champion is not a cultist as such he is not a zombie as such he can operate the weaponry, and also doesn't follow the rules for plague zombies. (How I see it.)

Nice try but you are skipping a vital step -- most likely on purpose -- that has already been hashed out regarding the champ.

 

You pick a unit, that unit becomes zombies, a zombie is blah blah blah.

The champion quits being a champion and is just another zombie along with the rest of the unit.

[alex567]

If you read the rules for plague zombies it sais, that they are chaos cultists with x y and z special rules, the cultist champion is not a cultist as such he is not a zombie as such he can operate the weaponry, and also doesn't follow the rules for plague zombies. (How I see it.)

Nice try but you are skipping a vital step -- most likely on purpose -- that has already been hashed out regarding the champ.

 

You pick a unit, that unit becomes zombies, a zombie is blah blah blah.

The champion quits being a champion and is just another zombie along with the rest of the unit.

 

I know I know, I was just diving for cookies! :)

[Techmarine Data007]

Having just read the phrase in question, my opinion is that the paragraph exists not to disallow them from shooting, but to allow you to basically substitute any cultist model for a zombie. So despite the model carrying a gun, it doesn't truly count as holding one. Rather, a gun shaped club. It's wonky, and strange, but the rule doesn't say they aren't allowed to make shooting attacks, rather that they no longer carry (useful) guns of their own. Not RAI, I realize, or terribly fluffy, but it doesn't disallow ranged attacks. If, for example, the unit somehow gained a ranged weapon, let's say for sake of example, assault grenades, their profile would not preclude them from throwing the grenade. If, on the other hand, they had their BS reduced to zero as a result of being all corpsified and gross, then that would stop them from firing anything.

[Gentlemanloser]

It disallows all shooting attacks.

 

As the unit isn't armed with a single ranged weapon, they cannot be nominated to make a shooting attack.

 

Unit rules, quad guns, etc aside. this is first step taken in the shooting phase, and stops assault Terminators and Plague zombies from shooting anything.

[Jacinda]

Having just read the phrase in question, my opinion is that the paragraph exists not to disallow them from shooting, but to allow you to basically substitute any cultist model for a zombie. So despite the model carrying a gun, it doesn't truly count as holding one. Rather, a gun shaped club. It's wonky, and strange, but the rule doesn't say they aren't allowed to make shooting attacks, rather that they no longer carry (useful) guns of their own.

 

"Any gun used"

It does not matter if they are holding it, are equipped with it or are manning battlefield debris. If they are using it then they are using it as a club. I think RAI, RAW and fluff are in alignment with this. Zombies are too stupid to pull a trigger much less find and release any safety, manipulate the controls to adjust yaw and pitch while tracking a target and finally using the correct appendage (which is probably not a finger) to active the firing mechanism. I dare say it would not be a simple thing for one of us to use a quad-.50 today. If they can not even point and shoot a pistol they have no hope in hades of firing a gun emplacement.

[alex567]

Having just read the phrase in question, my opinion is that the paragraph exists not to disallow them from shooting, but to allow you to basically substitute any cultist model for a zombie. So despite the model carrying a gun, it doesn't truly count as holding one. Rather, a gun shaped club. It's wonky, and strange, but the rule doesn't say they aren't allowed to make shooting attacks, rather that they no longer carry (useful) guns of their own.

 

"Any gun used"

It does not matter if they are holding it, are equipped with it or are manning battlefield debris. If they are using it then they are using it as a club. I think RAI, RAW and fluff are in alignment with this. Zombies are too stupid to pull a trigger much less find and release any safety, manipulate the controls to adjust yaw and pitch while tracking a target and finally using the correct appendage (which is probably not a finger) to active the firing mechanism. I dare say it would not be a simple thing for one of us to use a quad-.50 today. If they can not even point and shoot a pistol they have no hope in hades of firing a gun emplacement.

 

I think they should be allowed to shoot, I imagine a zombie limping up to the big green control panel with his left leg in his hand, and mashing the control panel cause its green and mr zombieface doesnt like green, which results in the pressing of a big red button activating the guns "machine spirit", rinse and repeat...