Dammeron Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Though the essential tome on the nature of Tzeentch and his daemons is undoubtedly the Liber Chaotica: Tzeentch, the recently released addition to the Fantasy Flight 40K role-playing system, Black Crusade, focuses primarily on the Changer of Ways, and explores the God's influence and operation in the 40K universe in somewhat more detail. Most interesting to me is that the book contains an incredible amount of detail concerning actual cultures and societies dedicated to Tzeentch in one or more guises; not insane, eternally shifting daemon worlds, but cultures that are comparable to those within the Imperium of Man in terms of their operation. Some, such as the sorcerer-artificers of Q'sal, serve Tzeentch openly, exhibiting an awareness of the god's nature and requirements and comporting their various cultures around them. Nor does the book opt for the lazy route of simply exhibiting a single culture for each planet or settlement; instead, there are multiple vying cultures that are explored and detailed, each one manifesting certain idiosyncrasies and preconceptions of what their patron demands. Fascinatingly, these cultures seem at least as stable and functional as any one might find in the Imperium, although they do of course exhibit certain "chaotic" traits too. The book also explores cultures of corrupted techno-magi that are dedicated to Tzeentch, utilising the god's penchant for sorcery and seeking after forbidden knowledge to create machines and monstrosities none at large within the material universe could even dream of. It seems that the writers have gone out of their way to explore how Tzeentch, arguably alone amongst the Chaos Gods, can function as the legitimate patron of a civilisation, rather than simply being an insane, soul-hungering maelstrom of a thing from beyond time and space. The constant political intrigues and devious ploys that inform Q'sal society, along with the entrenched plunging into forbidden knowledge and lore, suits the Changer of Ways perfectly, providing an interesting counterpoint to the Imperium and its dogmatism and Orwellian oppression. Highly recommended reading for any follower of the Great Manipulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Seconded! A little warp entity also told me that the Tome of Blood is worth its weight in, well, coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Thirded! Now if only I could find someone to play black crusade with......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I have got to get that book. Hey, guys, if we can find a GM, why don't we get a group together and run a game on RPOL or something? Hell, even on here? I don't think using a thread for roleplays is against the rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 If we could make it work fluidly enough for it to work, could I get in on that? I man Chaos is in my username... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 I don't think using a thread for roleplays is against the rules...I am afraid it is. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=164454 You guys should meet up on RPOL, Google+ or similar because Black Crusade is tons of good fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 In which case, would it be acceptable to use this thread as a recruitment drive for any possible campaign before moving it to one of those sites, or would we need to head on over to the Other Games sub-forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Good question, I believe that a recruitment/startup thread in the Other Games section would be the way to go + drop link to it here in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit446 Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I own the Black Crusade Corebook, and while I'm still incredibly noobish to that game, I would TOTALLY be in for doing an online game or something on Google Hangout or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kastor Krieg Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm up for roleplaying in Black Crusade! ALL IS DUST! ALL IS DUST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Thanks for the info, I may have to pick this one up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Having finally finished the book, I can honestly say it's one of the most enjoyable reads of a Warhammer 40K resource I've had in a long, long time. The Black Crusade game itself is a bit of a blast; I like my role-playing old fashioned, and this is about as old school as it gets; insanely detailed, elaborate and free-roaming, with a ton of references to some of the earliest work GW ever put out concerning Chaos. But it's the NEW stuff that really makes this one stand out. Instead of going the traditional route of trotting out the same old details with slightly different emphasis, we actually get an in depth view of how followers of Tzeentch function, both as individuals and as wider cultures. Along with the more traditional daemon worlds -and there are plenty, including one that is a giant, ever shifting theatre run by a Lord of Change who actively invites notable figures from throughout the galaxy to come see the performances given by the unwitting captives cast in his work-, there are the aforementioned city-states of Q'sal, which are by far the most interesting. Operating within the Warp storm of the Screaming Vortex, the Sorcerer-Artificers craft warships, titans, daemon engines; structures, works of art, machines etc that could not be conceived in the material universe. They also seem quite happy to trade with off worlders, or allow members of other cultures, races etc into their cities, so long as they abide by certain rules. It's interesting that the cultures are not degenerate asylums of mutants and monsters -though we also have a couple of those-; rather they are places of politics and intrigue; great, bustling metropolises in which miracles can be found being peddled on every street. The more chaotic elements derive from the citizens use of magic and sorcery in conjunction with their own technologies to sustain themselves. The currency of Q'sal is souls, hence travellers there have to have their wits and wiles about them, lest they end up BECOMING currency :) But, in its way, Q'sal is no more or less inhumane than many worlds within the Imperium; at least its citizens live in places of beauty and wonder, which is more than can be said for the choked, diseased hells of most Hive Cities. I can only hope that the up and coming Tome of Blood, dedicated to The Big Dog himself, is half way this considered and elaborate. i'd be particularly interested to see how the writers manage to create anything approaching a civilisation dedicated to Khorne, though I can think of a few ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 ^^^^That was my favourite, it was actually presenting Tzeentch as a workable alternative to the imperium, not just degenerate mutants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I think civilisations of Khorne are possible - in my gaming group one of the main worlds our Chaos forces are often based on when regrouping in the Eye is Dyrastor's (recently renamed in our own 'group-canon reboot'); since the arrival of the Traitor Legions the world has been a batle ground between worshippers of Khorne and Slaanesh, with each vying for control of a number of locations including forts, shrines, factory complexes, sentinent mountains, etc. Yet at the centre of the world's main landmass exists Dyrastor'ssyth - a walled city surrounded by sprawling slums and suburbs. The city and an area 100 miles around it are demilitarised zones and the city itself is ruled by a council of 5 Khornate commanders, 5 Slaaneshi Comanders and 5 'neutral' others. It is the council's job to maintain peace in the city and ensure that off-worlders can move around and trade, although many also sponsor armies in the field. In order for this to work the Khornates could not be throthing madmen (the closest is a World Eater lord, and even he can just about control himself). Instead they resemble the more militant of Rome's emperors; they are totally convinced of the power of war and of their own superiority of the Slaaneshi, and yet also understand the need for a quieter place for trade and economy where new recruits and mercenaries can be levvied before joining the battle. I'm not saying its the way FFG will go with representing Khornate civilisations and settlements, but I do think it shows that it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Yeah I'd love a proper game of Black Crusade! Problem with my gaming group is we always start things with enthusiasm but it runs out of steam within a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Yeah I'd love a proper game of Black Crusade! Problem with my gaming group is we always start things with enthusiasm but it runs out of steam within a few weeks.Do you know why that is? We've been going since early beta and have yet to run out of steam. Before BC we played Dark Heresy for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rime Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've got Black Crusade myself and never gotten a chance to play a game. Hand Of Corruption is in my hand now and its ok. Its mostly ruined by the use of the new Necrons. I suppose a creative GM could make it work, but I'm too inexperienced for that. If interest is still strong I'd love to chat to someone that's already played Black Crusade and get on a learning course. I'm a complete noob btw, so I'm no good to anyone atm. Also I've been playing around with ideas for new chars and the like. Generally just piecing together any information that get's my attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I want to play BC, too! :D EDIT: There isn't a sourcebook for Slaanesh yet, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Nope. So far, they've released the Tome of Fate, and the Tome of Blood (three guesses which god this one deals with!) has only just become available, which apparently has 4 more Archetypes, as well as rules for Steeds and expanded rules for Legaacy Weapons. I can only assume that it'll make the Khorne-worshipping worlds relatively more functional as well, given how well they did with Tzeentch. I'm so glad to see they've actually put thought into the worlds and societies, rather than the usual cop-out "lol, Chaos is Evil , therefore everyone on the daemon worlds are moustache-twirling, cackling stereotypes". Too often this is what GW has done, with the excuse of "it doesn't need to make sense or be functional, it's just a setting" (that was the actual explanation for the over-the-top evil-ness of the Dark Elf cities given by Gav Thorpe). This though, along with the actual Black Crusade book, was a refreshing take on Chaos. Yes, it's brutal, and dog-eat-dog, but it still has functional societies, with working economies. GW needs to learn from this. Also, I'd possibly be interested in taking part in an online game, if you'd be happy to have a Slaaneshi ex-Iron Warrior telepath in the group :D The journey of the Gilded Lord begins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Depends, how loud are you going to be when we are trying to read?? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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