Scout Shotguns

[corlinjewell]

I am about to put together my Scouts (5x strong and will go in a LSS). I was originally going to have four armed with shotguns and the Sgt. with a combi-melta/meltabombs. The more I try and crunch the numbers, however, the more I see no advantage to having Shotguns over Close Combat Scouts. Am I missing something? Also, I know many people here feel that CCW/BP scouts totally suck. So, should I do one of these loadouts or just go with Bolter Scouts?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The usual response to this inquiry is that shotguns are good if mixed in with CC scouts in a big squad to provide extra shooting power pre-charge or on Overwatch. The way you're looking at using them? They'll be handy if you plan on doing drive-by's and not dismounting; otherwise, I'd recommend CCW & pistol for your squad.

[GarretAsh]

Hi

 

I run the 3 types of scouts squads and i find that the Shotguns tend to be worst that the Close Combat types , normally i use this type of scouts to lock a enemy unit in combat for a turn or 2 , so in turn 2 you get near the opponent and fire the shotguns , so for 4 men(plus the sergeant) its 8 shotguns then a charge for 8 Attacks versus the Close Combat Scouts 4 shots and 12 Attacks (4 base+4 charge+4 for 2 weapons) this may seen to be basically the same but normally the 5 men do not tend to die in one turn so in the next turn they add more attacks because the 2 cc weapons .

 

If you are going in short range fire-fights you may consider the normal marine bolter as the main weapon , it can shoot at middle range and rapid fire inside the LSS or if they get in cc you can always fall back afther the 1º turn of cc and if you escape you can shot them with the rapidfire bolters.

[corlinjewell]

Thanks guys, that definitely helps. What about 2x shotguns and 2x CCW/BP guys. I saw that some people liked mixing these two types, but is that only for larger squads?

[Kaedes Nex]

Either use the bolter, the sniper rifle, or BP + CCW. It's pointless to use the shotgun because on the charge you are just the same as BP + CCW scouts but minus an AP attack and removing the closest enemy model from the 2 shots before assault means you may fail your charge due to range.

[Kingkaneda]

Shotgun scouts can be great if you use them correctly. When they are in a landspeederstorm with a HF, they will be close enough to enemy models to not worry about the charge range anyway. And the shotgun shots are basically Initiative 10 attacks before the close combat begins. Potentially killing 1-2 enemy models and reducing the number of attacks your scouts will have to survive. This makes them great for surviving a round of combat and keeping the enemy in combat for 1 turn.

[UnkyHamHam]

I have always considered Shotguns to be slightly superior to CCW/pistols. Reason being is I'd rather do more damage before engaging in close combat. And if the fight is drawn out, then I'd rather use Combat Tactics to run away and shoot again. Plus since they are Scouts, they aren't going to get much done unless you are charging a low end troop choice of Xenos or Guard. So in short I'd rather Shoot charge, run, shoot charge, ect...

[Giga]

Scout Shotguns, Are they useful at all?

No.

[Naminé]

The worst thing is the Shotguns that come with Scout Bikers.

 

Probably the most pointless Wargear in the Codex!

 

I still cannot see any practical use for the Shotguns in general... Everything they do is done better by other options.

 

EDIT: wow what the hell happened there?!

[Giga]

I still cannot see any practical use for the Shotguns in general... Everything they do is done better by other options.

Same reason you can give captains/chapter masters a boltgun or put additional storm bolters on tanks. Fluff option.

[UnkyHamHam]

Same reason you can give captains/chapter masters a boltgun or put additional storm bolters on tanks. Fluff option.

 

Boltguns on Captains/Masters can be upgraded to Hellfire Rounds at least. And Stormbolters serve a purpose of mitigating Weapon Destroyed results, since its a random weapon that is chosen. This can save your Vindicator's Demolisher Cannon!

 

There is no situation though, for a Scout Biker, that a Shotgun would ever be more useful than a Twin-linked Bolter or an Astartes grenade launcher.

[ShinyRhino]

The gap between Shotgun Scouts and Pistol/Blade Scouts closed a bit with the advent of Overwatch fire. Due to having WS and BS 3, Scouts hit most things in both shooting and melee on a 4. They'll also wound on the same value (S4 melee, S4 shotguns).

The shooting pre-charge is more valuable now than it used to be in order to whittle down overwatching models. Every Guardsman you kill with a shotgun is two fewer lasbolts Overwatching at your Scouts on the way in. Yes, you might mess up your charge range by killing enemy models before the charge, but you at least have that knowledge before you charge.

[Tranc]

As others have said, Shotguns have the advantage of allowing extra shots prior to charging, which means every kill made is one less enemy that can fire in overwatch or attack back in close-combat.

 

Bolt Pistols & Close Combat Weapons have the advantage of granting extra attacks in protracted melees.

 

What's Optimal?

 

I'd take a mix of both Shotguns and BP+CCWs. This would allow some extra shooting prior to charging, then put the Shotgun Scouts in front for the charge so that cassaulties are resolved on them first. If no Shotgun Scouts are left after the first round of combat, you're doing at least as well as someone who took all BP+CCWs.

 

:-)

Tranc

[maturin]

If you're charging a unit with initiative less than 4, CCW & BP may hold an edge for another reason. More casualties caused in CC = greater reduction in enemy leadership (assuming you win combat) = more likely to break and be run down.

 

Shotguns won't give you that benefit, though will be better for foes with I > 4 as you'll cut down on your own CC losses.

[Kierdale]

That is a good point, Maturin.

Hadn't looked at it that closely before.

[Azash]

Actually back in 5th I used to run Shock assault scout squads out of LSS's (back when they were still useful) and I did a fair amount of research on what was better a CCW+Pistol combo or a Pistol+Shotgun combo.

 

Against MEQ armies I found the Shotgun to work better. The additional shots prior to assault averaged out to be one more wound in the initial round of assault than the CCW+Pistol equipped scouts. Scouts don't hold up in multi round assaults against MEQ so with that type of unit in that type of fight your really trying to do your damage in that first round and make them take a leadership test then (given the ability of the LSS to add an additional negative).

 

Against non MEQ armies the scouts held up better with better or equivalent armor saves and the T & S of 4 allowed them to last through multi round assaults. So the additional attacks never really factored in as the shooting and initital assaults tended to shatter non MEQ units in one round anyway.

 

 

Adjusting this strategy for 6th I would still believe the shotguns would be superior to the CCW. Simply because of overwatch. The shotguns get you the additional shots from the squad before your opponent gets a chance to overwatch you and potentially whittle your numbers down. Since scouts are coming in short on models (usually 5 man squads) and light on armor and armament they depend on initial shock and weight of dice still. So the question becomes how many dice in one round can you make your opponent roll. Shotguns give you the most still.

 

Also to give my sergeant a little pop I would always pair his combi-melta up with a shotgun and melta bomb. That way if the scouts one the first assault or used the combi melta to pop high value armor the sergeant could add to the shotgun shooting before assault as well.