Anyone considering doing a Heresy AND a Great Crusade force?

[Emperor's Furor]

Is anyone considering doing a Heresy force AND a great crusade force? At the moment I have a unit and praetor of my Ultramarine Legions force done but it has Mk IV and Mk V armoured marines in it, so they couldn't really be suitable for a crusade army, so I was thinking of doing an entire crusade force with nothing but marines up to mark III barring characters who will have armour that looks like a higher mark since it'll count as artificer armour.

[alex567]

I'm doing a crusde/heresy army, initially my army will be the defenders of istvaan loken and the last of his loyal brothers, when horus comes out I will expand the army to a more crusade like army (sticking with the loyal theme), but it will be at the introduction of the mark 4, as far as I know mark 4 was around before istvaan 3 so that'll be when the army is set, I won't be including mark 5 at all but mark Iv will initialy be rare (as I see Horus arming the terran born's and emperor dedicated marines with mark III and his own guys with mark IV), and as I expand I will introduce more mark IV until I have about 3000 points of horus marines and 2000 pts of loken marines, I intend for about 1500pt of loken to be interchangeable, while the rest will be istvaan "make-do" conversions.

[Nova_Dew]

As far as the new fluff goes the SW had the MK IV before Perospero

[Lorenzen]

mk 4 was indeed around before the heresy.. horus with the talon & mace was not though so id rethink waiting on him for a crusade force, the serpents scales are heresy only

[alex567]

mk 4 was indeed around before the heresy.. horus with the talon & mace was not though so id rethink waiting on him for a crusade force, the serpents scales are heresy only

Horus had the serpants scales + the talon and mace at istvaan 3 acording the HH Betrayal, my army is going to be set just before that, so after davin but before istvaan where he is all pimped out.

[Aegnor]

Lunar Wolves had mkIV from at least the start of the timeframe covered in 'Horus Rising'. When Hastur Sejanus is killed, Horus remarks that he looked the part in Mk IV armour.

 

I think from memory in Galaxy in Flames, Horus's new armour had arrived just before they got to Istvaan III.

[alex567]

Worldbreaker was given to him when he became warmaster, the talon has long been Horus' favourite weapon, which seems like he had it for a while, and his armour was fashoned by kelbore hal so I presume it was when they became allies, with all this info I persoanlly believe there was a good time period before istvaan 3, where all these weapons were together, the only key aspect to my list is that it is set before istvaan 3 but after Horus got his equipment, this is only key because of the inclusion of Loken, who has not been sent to istvaan yet, and the fully armoured warmaster, all the other pieces will fit into place around these key features.

 

So as I said before my army is a Crusade/Heresy army, as it is slap bang in the middle of the two.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

If I recall, Night Lords had mkIV armor during the Thramas Crusade shortly after the Heresy kicked off, so I guess it stands to reason that by the time of the Dropsite Massacre the Legions were either running mixes of mkIII and mkIV or had gone over entirely to mkIV. I still haven't picked a Legion for a Heresy-era army but when I do I plan to go entirely mkIV with it.

[Emperor's Furor]

I think the MK IV seems to recent for a crusade force, I know it's possible they had them, but I'm thinking more during the middle of the great crusade, when the heresy wasnt a possibility.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I think the MK IV seems to recent for a crusade force, I know it's possible they had them, but I'm thinking more during the middle of the great crusade, when the heresy wasnt a possibility.

 

In that case, go either all mkIII or a mix of mkII and mkIII and I think you'd be covered.

[Veteran Sergeant]

II and II were the standard armor of the Crusade, for sure. Though, really, the timeline for the armors is pretty silly when you look at it.

 

II and III (which is really just 2.5 with some extra front armor and an improved helmet) are in service for a few hundred years, and then suddenly IV, "V", VI, and VII come out within a short time span. I guess one could think of the tech curve running like, say, computer tech did between 1980 and now, I guess. But that steep of a rise seems a bit odd, especially given how much better VII is than IV or VI in terms of its apparent flexibility and protection level. But the gap between II/III and IV was originally supposed to be the main change, with successive Marks either being stopgap measures like V was, or progressing tech levels like VI and VII. The newer Forge World models, with the moving helmets, blurs that gap somewhat.

 

Again, we come back into problems of model making in the early 90s, lol. Beakies were the original models, so all of the "older" Marks were written as historical armors, and so few models were made, they weren't ever really even intended for the game, just sort of unique curiosity or collector models. The Heresy fluff was also really, really vague back then too. So when the new Mk VII figures were released as the new hotness, the history for it had to be written into the storyline ("Oh hai, Mk VII came out right at the end of the Heresy too!").

 

But yeah, IV was late, late Crusade. Peak Crusade Marines should be wearing II, with a smattering of III.

[Raven Angel]

Mark IV plate was the newest and was in the process of being shipped to all Legion forces at the time the HH broke out. Assumption is that it came into service around the time of the Ullanor Crusade. Refitting of all legion forces and a proper build up so spare parts was incomplete at the time of the fall of Mars and the Mk IV production lines where lost to the traitors. Mk V plate is a catch all term for any amalgamated suits of armor rebuilt post Isstvan/Calth/Signus and can include components of Mks II, III, IV plate.Mk VI plate went into production on Terra and Kiavahr after Isstvan. Of not is that the helm most often associated with Mk V plate is actually a refitted Mk Iv helm with an improved re-breather apparatus and various armor sections where ofter reenforced with molecular bonding studs to deal with the higher AP bolt rounds commonly used buy both sides.

Mk I plate or Thunder armor was used at the start of the Unification wars and served on active duty for around 400 years. The very first Legionaries where equipped with it. It is still used for some ceremonial positions like Jaghatai Khan's ship board honor guard.

Mk II plate went into use sometime during the last century of the Unification wars and was Astartes only issue. surviving Thunder Warriors still used only Mk I plate. Mk to was a significant improvement being the first fully sealed suit and therefore capable of void combat.

Mk III plate was the first Martian development and was intended for use primary in void combat, boarding actions, and massed frontal assaults. In many ways it is the forerunner of Tactical Dreadnought Armour.

 

(New info incorporated from latest HH stories and FW's Betrayal)

[Emperor's Furor]

I was just reading about the Dusk Raiders being from Great Britain (Albia = Albion?) and it got me thinking about doing a massive infantry crusade force with emphasis on night fighting.

[alex567]

I'm sure loken had a suit of MK IV leading up to the drop site masacre, there's a description of him in his new armour or something like that, I imagine that Horus ordered loads of the buggers for his catalan reaver company, which is why there seen in the HH Betrayal book looking so badass, that's why I'm looking for a mix, the main commanders and veteran members would have got the shiny new armour (loken, aximand, and the other guy, and maybe a few honourary members from each of there companies, such as command squads).