Havoks VS Obliterators

[Tking]

Hey guys as the title says HvO what do you think is more competitive for a 1500pt Game.

I have a game against my Friends Gray nights coming up and he always creamed me so with recently corrupting to chaos I want to prove the dark gods are kick ass.

Thanks alot Tking

P.S please ignore all bad grammar and spelling I just got off work and I'm exhausted

[tvih]

Personally I'd go with Havocs. Obliterators are more versatile since they have a variety of weapons at their disposal, but that is also a weakness especially for anti-tank duties, since you can't just spam lascannons for example. Havocs also provide volume of fire compared to Obliterators. For the same price - or less! - you can have 4 heavy weapons firing per turn in a Havoc squad, or two in an Obliterator squad. For example, two Obliterators with MoN (without which your two wounds will do little good, as a simple lascannon will oneshot you) cost 152 points, while a squad of 5 havocs with 4 lascannons costs 155. Or of course there's the AC Havocs for a mere 115 points.

 

Havocs need a decent cover to be durable though, and can't move and still shoot efficiently, while Obliterators are not hampered by movement. In the end it boils down to your play style and what the rest of your list is like... and even plain ol' personal preference.

[Tking]

Thank you for the help, thinking of going with the havocs.

[Spaz431]

Also bear in mind that obits count as daemons, so GK's get bonus' against that. You can out spam a team of havoks with las, autocannon, or heavy bolt and bring the pain on those shiny punks.

[Zhukov]

Obliterators, I don't care how much cheaper havocs have gotten:

-Versatility. (not only having an effective weapon against anything, but also being able to deepstrike and having powerfists)

-Mobility. (move and shoot)

-Defense. (also being able to defend themselves in CC)

 

In the case of GK I preffer Oblits even more, as they don't have (m)any Ap2/Ap1 weapons to negate Oblits their 2+ save.

[Moress]

I like oblits for their versatility. That said, I normally take a squad of 3 with MoN and a squad of 5 havoks with 4x AC. My third slot goes back and fourth between a defiler, land raider, and vindicator.

 

With the addition of Assault cannons, oblits are now beast mode. Against infantry, plasma cannon/assault cannon is my go to. Against vehicles, Lascannons/multimelta.

 

Don't forget they have twin linked everything at close range and a PF with two attacks in melee. I've had MCs with no 'nades charge my oblits and come out ontop.

 

Add the fact they can move and still shoot and their golden, able to get into AssCannon or multimelta range.

 

As mentioned before though, MoN is a must for oblits.

 

In a small point game, 1000 or less, I'll take a couple oblits over the havoks for the versatility. In bigger games you can afford to grab both, or have two squads of specialized havoks (i.e. on squad with autocannons, one with lascannons).

[Tamwulf]

Havoc's are a good choice if you are taking an Aegis Defense Line. You can set them up behind the line and have the Champ fire the gun. Your whole squad will get the benefit of cover and enhanced firepower.

 

The Oblits are probably a better all around choice due to 2+/5++ and 2 wounds. Take a mark of Nurgle and they won't be getting instant killed. MoN makes them a little more expensive, but way more durable.

[zyl-]

According to the current meta, havocs are better. I forget all the exact reasons for this, but autocannon havocs on a quad gun or las-havocs on an icarus laser are going to be the choice.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

I just had a game versus GK using CSM. I took Oblits... and wished I had Havocs. The vast majority of GK shooting is 24" (30" with movement). Out-ranging them is really helpful, since you can reduce their firepower without receiving return damage for at least a turn or perhaps even two. Big difference in a shootout.

 

Also, AC Havocs are awesome as always but also consider using at least one unit of LC Havocs to shoot at Dread-Knights.

 

I'm torn on what is better: 135pts for 4 ML or 135pts for 3 LC. Versus 3+ armor saves the MLs are better but if there are any 2+ in the opponent's list at all and I'd be wishing I had the LCs.

[Kol Saresk]

Hmm, just wondering since we are talking about Havoc setups a little, what do y'all think of 5 Havocs with 2 MLs with Flak and 2 AC?

[Svarte Hanske]

I love the obliterators for the deepstriking, mobile versatility they represent.

 

Used to play with havocs before, but they need some clever deployment. Otherwise a cunning opponent can dodge them completely.

 

Huron can give the havocs infiltrate though, so they can be deployed for better effect.

 

Stay Alpha (Legion)! Be genetically different! Infiltrate your havocs or deepstrike your obliterators! ...or stuff the havocs in a rhino. They need some speed.

 

Then there is the issue of which gear setup for the havocs. Missile launcher got some versatility, autocannons usually wounds on 2+ and can also blast holes in light vehicles, lascannons are the havoc version of sniper rifles <_<, heavy bolters are nice for tearing up horde-units like orks, imperial guard etc... and so on. Obliterators just swap on the spot whatever seems most useful at the time.

 

In the end you can put some points in 2 obliterators (two units, not one), or buy havocs + weapons + rhino. The rhino can also be outfitted with some pew-pew. Will cost a bit though.

[Lepaca]

Hmm, just wondering since we are talking about Havoc setups a little, what do y'all think of 5 Havocs with 2 MLs with Flak and 2 AC?

 

No. Why ever mix these two weapon types?

They won't be good (read: reliable) anti-air and they will be less good at doing what a full AC squad does.

[Araziel]

I've been toying with the idea of getting hold of some Havocs and arming them all with missile launchers with skyfire rounds, and then hiding them all inside a Bastion with a quad gun on the top... for dealing with the flyer spam I've started seeing in one of the two clubs I go to.

 

I think I'll still always take my Obliterator squad though, just because I love the models.

[Kythnos]

Hmm, just wondering since we are talking about Havoc setups a little, what do y'all think of 5 Havocs with 2 MLs with Flak and 2 AC?

 

I did that against a DE army and it worked reasonably well. They were kept save inside a defensively placed Rhino and there were always two Havocs shooting out of the top hatch, depending on the available targets. At the same time, the Rhino was annoying the squishy dark eldar with its havoc launcher, after they were shot out of their transports. Sure, you're giving up half of the shooting power of the unit each turn played this way, but in this particular game it worked for me and kept my backfield save.

[Morollan]

Hmm, just wondering since we are talking about Havoc setups a little, what do y'all think of 5 Havocs with 2 MLs with Flak and 2 AC?

 

I did that against a DE army and it worked reasonably well. They were kept save inside a defensively placed Rhino and there were always two Havocs shooting out of the top hatch, depending on the available targets. At the same time, the Rhino was annoying the squishy dark eldar with its havoc launcher, after they were shot out of their transports. Sure, you're giving up half of the shooting power of the unit each turn played this way, but in this particular game it worked for me and kept my backfield save.

 

I have no idea how the DE managed not to destroy your Rhino by the end of Turn One.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

Hmm, just wondering since we are talking about Havoc setups a little, what do y'all think of 5 Havocs with 2 MLs with Flak and 2 AC?

 

No. Why ever mix these two weapon types?

They won't be good (read: reliable) anti-air and they will be less good at doing what a full AC squad does.

 

I think it is interesting though you give up some performance in certain areas. With the ML you can glance AV14. Not optimal, but you can. You also get the ability to small blast hordes and shoot better at flyers. All 4 weapons are decent against MCs. All 4 weapons are decent against light vehicles. All 4 weapons have the same range. Essentially you are paying the extra cost so that two of them can fire small blast and flakk, though you are saving the 40 points of having them all be MLs w/ flakk. To me, this seems to be an acceptable build for an environment where you might encounter AN enemy flyer but are not sure to do so.

[UglyWretch]

I've run a Havoc squad with 4 Plasmaguns before. That was a giggle. Moved through some cover until I got close and RapidFired some Termies to death! I hate people just deciding that there are only 2 ways to equip them: ACs or LCs. I try different tactics. Not only because I'm skint and not going to buy 4 of one model just to have "the best" set up.

[Brother Ambroz]

After using oblits for years I was happy when we had a competitive new option in havocs so I've got one painted squad of 2 ACs and 2 MLs. Have an unpainted squad of 4 MLs too which I used in conjunction with the other squad a week or so ago. If you're going to take these guys for one, you need extras to soak up wounds and more models means more time before that LD check. From the few games I've played with my havocs, they just aren't very versatile. My havocs struggled to even take out a defiler (which ended up going down eventually to a chainfist). I think the only thing they did take down was a rhino. Whereas oblits would've likely smashed it with a MM eventually.

[Storm Dragons 3rd Company]

I've run a Havoc squad with 4 Plasmaguns before. That was a giggle. Moved through some cover until I got close and RapidFired some Termies to death! I hate people just deciding that there are only 2 ways to equip them: ACs or LCs. I try different tactics. Not only because I'm skint and not going to buy 4 of one model just to have "the best" set up.

 

Yeah, I'm a little torqued off at GW for the fact that the heavy weapon guys come 4 different ones to a box plus another guy. You used to be able to buy a single AC guy or a LC guy, but not any more. I have 3 AC guys and suspect that is all I will ever have because I'm not buying a whole box of not-so-Finecast just to get one more. Otherwise, I have 4MLs, 2 LCs, and about 6 HBs plus the smaller weapons.

[Kol Saresk]

Meanwhile, the Devastators come with a ML, Multi-Melta, two Heavy Bolters, two Lascannons and two Plasma Cannons for US$10 cheaper than the Havoc squad. ;)

 

On the plus side, a little converting on the Heavy Bolters, such as adding a barrel, an I think they can be passed off as Autocannons.

[Brother Ambroz]

On the plus side, a little converting on the Heavy Bolters, such as adding a barrel, an I think they can be passed off as Autocannons.

 

For sure! Autocannons aren't very hard to convert using assault cannon or autocannon barrels and loyalist or traitor heavy bolters.

[Kol Saresk]

On the plus side, a little converting on the Heavy Bolters, such as adding a barrel, an I think they can be passed off as Autocannons.

 

For sure! Autocannons aren't very hard to convert using assault cannon or autocannon barrels and loyalist or traitor heavy bolters.

Actually I was thinking steal the Lascannon barrel, and "flatten" it out.

[Brother Ambroz]

Seems like that still might look a little laser-like..... maybe not though. Just have to wait and see how it looks when you're done. ;)

[UglyWretch]

I've run a Havoc squad with 4 Plasmaguns before. That was a giggle. Moved through some cover until I got close and RapidFired some Termies to death! I hate people just deciding that there are only 2 ways to equip them: ACs or LCs. I try different tactics. Not only because I'm skint and not going to buy 4 of one model just to have "the best" set up.

 

Yeah, I'm a little torqued off at GW for the fact that the heavy weapon guys come 4 different ones to a box plus another guy. You used to be able to buy a single AC guy or a LC guy, but not any more. I have 3 AC guys and suspect that is all I will ever have because I'm not buying a whole box of not-so-Finecast just to get one more. Otherwise, I have 4MLs, 2 LCs, and about 6 HBs plus the smaller weapons.

Well, if I chop and change the Special weapons from my normal Marine squads, I've got 4 Heavy Bolters, 4/5 Flamers, 4 Plasma Guns, 2 Meltas, 1 AC, 2 LCs and a ML. Like I said, the 4 Plasmaguns worked. People always expect Havocx to just sit back, but sometimes it's nice to have a 10 man Marine squad running forward with 4 special weapons.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Like I said, the 4 Plasmaguns worked. People always expect Havocx to just sit back, but sometimes it's nice to have a 10 man Marine squad running forward with 4 special weapons.

What about Chosen who don't use up your precious Heavy Support? That would be my only qualm about spec-weap Havocs.