Havoks VS Obliterators

[the jeske]

It has everything to do with the discussion . If someone bases his argument on I took X , where X is not just bad , but doesnt make sense [flamers and hvy weapons in the same unit, hvy bolters 0_o , plasmaguns on havocks] and then basing on how good/bad the unit set up was for him , creates an argument that X units are viable/non viable , then he is wrong.

An argument needs a base , even a small one , that makes sense .for example , X works because we play on 6x6 tables with 2500+armies only and no flyers and no more then 1 same named unit in the army .

 

Also if someone is totaly fresh and doesnt know what he is talking about , is it a wise thing to post based on a short and limited expiriance a new player has ?

I'm torn about the Havocs vs Pred for Lascannon inclusion. Although that discussion would go in an open thread discussing ALL shooty-Heavy Support pitted against each other... but my comment would be 15pts gets you another LC and also greater durability (1 good pen on the Pred and its adios--- granted Pred is invulnerable to Small Arms fire but still...)

IMO that is rather a simple thing . Are you runing IG ally with manticors/lemmans/chimeras ? yes. take preds. are you runing demons for flying MCs/flamers/screamers ? if your doing that , then take havocks . if the difference in points doesnt let you take something extra when you take the same number of units[lets say 2-3 preds vs 2-3 havocks would give you ~75/100pts , then you could think about which one is always better] , then you check how rest of the army looks like .

one shouldnt take just 1-2 av units . There are also other factors , for example if you take huron there can be times when infiltrating havocks/oblits is a better thing to do then having a pred .

[pivich]

In my example, the entire unit of havocs (of 9) would be "embarked" into the bastion, which has 3 levels. Having 5 on the top level and 4 in the middle level would still have all of them "inside" the bastion, and I could still throw a squad of whatever into the lowest (floor) level. This is how everyone I have ever seen use the bastion use it. I am right, yes? Are you saying that being "on the roof" is not "inside" the bastion? So if the bastion is destroyed, anyone on the roof is not affected then?

Sorry but you are wrong. Bastion is treated as separate 2 separate buildings - main building with transport capacity of 20 models (because of "Medium Building" type) AND battlement (which capacity is how many models you can place there). Also, in battlements rules it's clearly stated that "...the whole unit must fit in order for it to occupy the battlements".

[Svarte Hanske]

I can in a way understand the inclusion of a flamer in a heavy weapon specialist team;

 

a. it can be fluffy

b. flamer overwatch can be funny against chargers, so it adds some form of defense

 

but... the defense point is kinda moot because the inclusion of more dakka boom boom would also remove potential threats, and at a much better range.

 

All in all, stick with more heavy weapons :)