How to kill a vindicator with Dark Angels

[Lord Squidar]

Hi Guys,

 

I am very new to marines and DA but am a veteran of the game. I am struggling to kill a silly vindicator in my games which is really racking up the kills against me. I have one missile launcher in my army (DV plus a flamer, missile launcher tac squad).

 

I am planning on getting something specifically anti tank to crush the foolish Aurelia (my mate plays blood ravens)

 

Option 1 is a speeder with multi melta and missile lauchers, which will rush forward into cover and harass the tank as much as possible. a glass cannon of note but a cheap solution to my woes.

 

Option 2: a venerable dreadnought with either a TL lascannon or an assault cannon. I like the model, but its pointswise more expensive and i hear varied feedback on them from my friends. people have used them with success by drop podding them into my lines and flaming away, but i've never seen one specifically anti tank.

 

I would love a predator tank but its out of my budget right now, luckily christmas is around the corner.

 

Any help or advice?

[Azrael Turnbull]

Vindicator their Vindicator the hell back!

 

Aha, Nah, I imagine if a Predator is out of your budget, then a Vindicator won't do. Landspeeders are the cheaper (points) option. The Dreadnought has higher armour, but less movement. It's easier to hide from compared to a speeder. Also, the speeder can resort to Frag Missiles if you're against a horde army and have run out of 'large' targets.

 

The only thing the Dreadnought provides which the speeder does not is a lascannon (albeit a twin linked one). Don't pay the 20 points for venerable. It's not as good now that it only has to lose 3 hull points, and you don't really need it.

 

Also, ask your friends for a Predator for Christmas! And/or several Vindicator's! And never use the Tactical Marine Missile Launcher to shoot vehicles unless there is no other viable target. That's over 150 points of boltgun sitting around doing nothing that turn. Besides, ten Krak Grenades are better against vehicles than one missile, so moving towards is always an option depending on your circumstances. Moving towards a Vindicator requires a Rhino from the armoury. That is all!

 

Good hunting!

[Sviar]

The first thing that comes to mind is a DP with a five man squad with meltabombs and a meltagun, or you could ally yourself with a C:SM chapter and use Sterguard in a DP with Combimelta, that has worked for me.

[Raven of the Wing]

I would suggest a combination of a 5 man deathwing squad for anti-tank, teleporting behind the armour on turn one using deathwing assault, (and into cover!!!), put a landspeeder with a multi melta on its flank, (12" scout move and 12" move) its got to respond to one of the threats, and the other gets it. Either the l/s melts it into slag or deathing assault next turn with 5 chainfists....booyaa! in addition if the deathwing assault from behind, and it turns to face them (i.e. to shoot em), its showing its bumhole to your lascannons/missile launchers. :)

[facmanpob]

What is the rest of your army list? It sounds like you have the DV box, plus 1 extra tactical squad, with a flamer and missile launcher.......is that correct?

Secondly, when you say budget, I'm assuming you mean financial budget rather than points budget?

 

If so, then you are looking at currently around about a 1000 point army list, and yes, you are running extremely light on anti-tank weapons so its not surprising you are struggling to kill your mate's Vindy. A Vindy is extrmely potent in 1000 point games (my mate runs one and I hated it for a long time!). If a predator was an option for Xmas, then you wouldn't go far wrong getting one, but personally, I'd be tempted to get 2 landspeeders. They cost roughly the same amount of money as a single predator, you get twice the modelling and painting fun (assuming you enjoy that!) and you get the option to run them as Typhoon/multi-melta weapons platforms for only 75 points each. Yes they are fragile, but if you play on boards with decent amounts of terrain you can hide them resonably easily. I've had a Typhoon speeder last an entire game with only a single glancing hit, taking out 2 dreadnoughts on the way! :)

[Lord Squidar]

yeah its a financial budget not a points budget, although we often play 1000 points, so a land speed fits the bill perfectly. I need to find an excuse to get a dreadnought in the future, they look so cool.

[lhg033]

speeders or bikes are the better options for killing vehicles.

 

bikes:

you have 3 bikes from the DV boxset. you could add an attackbike to them with a multimelta and another biker with a 2nd plasma gun or convert the DV biker and the additional biker to have meltaguns.

 

plasma guns on side/rear armour may kill a vindicator. rapid firing gives you the volume of shots to make it work for glancing to death/lucky penetrating shot. meltas/multimelta will more likely penetrate and kill it but are less diverse. if that fails and you have meltabombs then you can charge the vindicator to finish it off though i would try and steer clear of combat with bikes generally

 

speeders:

landspeeder typhons are one of the most points effecient killing machines we have (make sure to check the FAQ, typhoons are heavy 2 missile launchers vs what the codex says)

 

christmas present:

RW boxset? shop around and it can be 20%+ cheaper. gives you 6 bikes (no special weapons unfortunately, you need to get those somewhere else) a speeder, and an attack bike.

 

get some magnets too and you can swap weapon options on the speeder (even make it into samael in a speeder if you fancy it), the attack bike and the bikes

[facmanpob]

speeders or bikes are the better options for killing vehicles.

 

bikes:

you have 3 bikes from the DV boxset. you could add an attackbike to them with a multimelta and another biker with a 2nd plasma gun or convert the DV biker and the additional biker to have meltaguns.

ebay is your friend.....you could try to find someone selling the 3 DV bikes on their own.....I've seen enough of them advertised to know they are cheap and reasily available.

[AngelVeto]

speeders or bikes are the better options for killing vehicles.

 

bikes:

you have 3 bikes from the DV boxset. you could add an attackbike to them with a multimelta and another biker with a 2nd plasma gun or convert the DV biker and the additional biker to have meltaguns.

ebay is your friend.....you could try to find someone selling the 3 DV bikes on their own.....I've seen enough of them advertised to know they are cheap and reasily available.

 

 

I can thou roughly second that motion. On average I found three DV bikes to run about 15$ with shipping. I should know, I have 21 of them now haha.

 

Also the deathwing is a very viable option for both eBay and for anti vehicle. The ravenwing bikes all have teleport homers, so if you deep strike the termies within 6" of a bike, you don't roll for scatter. I've popped a few tanks with my cyclones, and in one game had my opponent try to contest an objective on the last turn with his land raided. My chain fist taught him the error of his ways and gave his fists what for! (Total kill count for that match and that particular chain fist was 1 land raider, 3 termies, a land speeder and Lysander himself!)

[Azrael Turnbull]

yeah its a financial budget not a points budget, although we often play 1000 points, so a land speed fits the bill perfectly. I need to find an excuse to get a dreadnought in the future, they look so cool.

 

This tells me all that I need to know. The rule of cool is the most important rule, so if you want a Dreadnought, get it. In terms of efficiency and points value, the Land Speeder is the way forward, but that doesn't mean the Dreadnought is bad at it's job. Are you planning on going for double shooty arms, or one gun and one fist? You should round up any friends you know that also collect Dark Angels, as chances are they will have lots of spare bits. the Ravenwing Starter set which most DA players have include all sorts of Dark Angels Dreadnought goodies, so if anyone has them going spare, get your mits on them now!

 

In terms of weapons, the Twin-Linked Lascannon is obviously the best for hitting tanks with, but if you're struggling for points, the Assault Cannon is the second best option. In my opinion, you should never replace the CC weapon with a ML. You're spending more points on something that will probably bounce off or miss the Vindicator for the entire game. Or so my luck says...

 

You can use Raven of the Wing's suggestion, by putting the Dreadnought in a Drop Pod. Before the Drop Pod model came out, we all used to use large cups or mugs in their place. It will not turn up on turn one, so won't be as reliable, but you're almost guaranteed to get rear armour. The Assault Cannon will love that!

[facmanpob]

Agreed, the ML is not a great option for a Dreadd imho. I'd rather keep the DCCW. However, a mortis dread with 2 x TL lascannons is pretty cool :)

[lhg033]

Agreed, the ML is not a great option for a Dreadd imho. I'd rather keep the DCCW. However, a mortis dread with 2 x TL lascannons is pretty cool :)

 

also - mortis dread adds some anti flyer if it stays still. very nice option though you are looking at buying FW books for the supporting rules plus either converting or buying the relevant arms for your dread.

[Dark_Master]

Agreed, the ML is not a great option for a Dreadd imho. I'd rather keep the DCCW. However, a mortis dread with 2 x TL lascannons is pretty cool :)

 

also - mortis dread adds some anti flyer if it stays still. very nice option though you are looking at buying FW books for the supporting rules plus either converting or buying the relevant arms for your dread.

 

If you look around, there are a couple of official forge world update PDFs that give you the Mortis rules for free! Just the regular one, not the Mortis Contemptor.

 

DM

[Haranin]

You could hunt for the Multi Melta Dreadnought and stick it in a drop pod.

 

If you are on a budget, you can convert a drop pod from PVC pipe until you can afford the box set.

 

MM arms are available every now and then on ebay.

[Azrael Turnbull]

I believe a Mortis Dreadnought is out of the question as it would ultimately cost more than a Predator. But yes, it is a fine option.

[facmanpob]

I believe a Mortis Dreadnought is out of the question as it would ultimately cost more than a Predator. But yes, it is a fine option.

All depends on whether someone is happy with 2nd hand or not. My mortis came from ebay for less than £10, with Lascannon and missile launcher arms. It needed a lot of work to clean it up as it was in a bad state, and needed some further purchases to get all the weapon options I wanted, but ultimately its cost me no more than 60% of a normal dreadnought, but with mortis weapons :)

[Brother Immolator]

Lascannon dev squad always worked for me.

[Isiah]

bikes:

you have 3 bikes from the DV boxset. you could add an attackbike to them with a multimelta and another biker with a 2nd plasma gun or convert the DV biker and the additional biker to have meltaguns.

 

I'm going to agree with this solution as being the cheapest solution - assuming you are using the DV box set of course. You can get hold of an mm Attack Bike pretty easily from ebay and meltguns from bitz part websites.

[Lord Squidar]

Thanks for all the responses guys.

 

I rather like the idea of adding more ravenwing bikers which would give me a squad of 6, with melta, plasma and melta bombs on the sarge. At close range, thats 1 shot at str 8 2d6 pen and 2 at str 7. Combined with a scout move to get into the rear armour, should be enough to kill Aurelia.

 

On the dreadnought... Its my number 1 choice, and I think i'd keep the fist on. The missile is cool too, but str 10 hits are hard to come by and it makes it more versatile imoho.

 

Predator tank has officially been added to the christmas list, but do I give it all lascannons (expensive) or keep it cheap (autocannon is only str 7 though)

 

p.s. already traded for 3 ravenwing update sprues, so have more than enough bling=)

[facmanpob]

Predator tank has officially been added to the christmas list, but do I give it all lascannons (expensive) or keep it cheap (autocannon is only str 7 though)

Auto-las would be my vote - autocannon turret with lascannon sponsons :P

[Brother dean]

I believe the magnets are our future....

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/Metalbox005.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/Ironwing003.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w20/fred40k2002/Dark%20Angels/Ironwing001.jpg

 

Dont Choose.... Predators are the easiest to convert to magnets, I've got a Predrhinoback.

 

(PLease be kind on the painting as I was in the middle of re-doing that Pread....)

[lhg033]

I believe the magnets are our future....

 

agreed! much cheaper than buying multiple models/turrets

 

helpful predator/rhino chassis tutorial

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=233713

[BigGumbo]

I would suggest a combination of a 5 man deathwing squad for anti-tank, teleporting behind the armour on turn one using deathwing assault, (and into cover!!!), put a landspeeder with a multi melta on its flank, (12" scout move and 12" move) its got to respond to one of the threats, and the other gets it. Either the l/s melts it into slag or deathing assault next turn with 5 chainfists....booyaa! in addition if the deathwing assault from behind, and it turns to face them (i.e. to shoot em), its showing its bumhole to your lascannons/missile launchers. :lol:

Quick point of order, as I know it's now irrelevant to the discussion: our landspeeders don't get Scout, which is why buying a fully loaded Ravenwing Attack Squadron is sub-optimal as the presence of the speeder prevents the whole unit from outflanking. From memory it's only the LS Storm (which we can't have) that has Scout and even that's only as a DT for a squad of Scouts - although as a DA-only player, it's entirely possible that I've got that slightly wrong.

[Raven of the Wing]

you might be right about the scout move on the speeders gumbo...... but for sure a ravenwing attack squadren, must deploy at same time, but they act independantly there after.

[Drunkspleen]

Quick point of order, as I know it's now irrelevant to the discussion: our landspeeders don't get Scout, which is why buying a fully loaded Ravenwing Attack Squadron is sub-optimal as the presence of the speeder prevents the whole unit from outflanking. From memory it's only the LS Storm (which we can't have) that has Scout and even that's only as a DT for a squad of Scouts - although as a DA-only player, it's entirely possible that I've got that slightly wrong.

 

Scout now only requires a single model in the unit to have it to allow the whole unit to make a scout move and/or outflank, while you still couldn't scout a Landspeeder in a Ravenwing Attack Squadron because you are forced to combat squad it off into its own unit (the other parts of the squad would in this instance get to make scout moves), however, you can outflank the whole combined unit as a single entity because an outflanking unit (or any unit in reserves for that matter) isn't "deployed" until it arrives from reserves at which point you have to handle combat squadding.

 

Also, the Landspeeder Storm is not a dedicated transport but a separate Fast Attack selection.