Chaos vs IG Mech

[techsoldaten]

Over the weekend, I watched a game that pitted a Chaos Player against an IG Mech List. The IG list had 9 Leman Russ tanks, 6 chimeras, a flyer and several snipers shooting from across the board. The game was a slaughter, the Chaos player was wrecked by turn 3 and the game ended when his entire force was wiped from the board without taking out any of the big tanks.

 

It made me think, how could a Chaos army be optimized to deal with a list like this? What kinds of AV options do we have that could at least stem the tide before it becomes a full-on rout? I took the time to think it through, and believe it's possible for a Chaos player to survive and possibly win a game against such a force.

 

Part of the challenge is that so much of our AV is tied up in Heavy Support options. We have the following units at our disposal:

 

- Havocs w/ Lascannons

- Obliterators

- Laspreds

- Land Raiders

- Vindicators

- Forgefiend

 

They are all solid AV choices capable of taking out tanks reliably. We only get 3 of them, though, compared to the 9 models an IG player could field, which is not the best feeling in the world. Points become important here, not just because they are expensive, but also because each unit has slightly different benefits / drawbacks.

 

A unit of lashavocs, a laspred, and a forgefiend all cost around the same number of points. The lashavoc is going to be a little more fragile, the laspred is going to have more firepower, and the forgefiend is going to lack a little in offensive strength but have more shots total than the others.

 

Also, comparions between laspreds and land raiders should be made. The laspred has the same number of lascannon attacks as the land raider for fewer points, but the landraider is harder to kill. Vindicators would be the least attractive option in this list, because they need to get in so close to use their demolisher cannon, but it's probably safe to assume they have their place in some lists.

 

Besides our HS options, we have

 

- Chosen

- Helbrutes

- Terminators

 

I left off noise marines because, except for the blastmaster, they can't really do too much AV.

 

Decisions around what to use in the Elites slots are not as clear cut as with Heavy Support, each unit has benefits and drawbacks that create challenges in how they are used.

 

Helbrutes armed with a twin-linked lascannon and a missile launcher are probably the most reliable AV choice in the elites section. They do suffer from the crazed rule, which seems like it could actually be a benefit in a long range AV shootout.

 

Probably the most effective AV unit would be the Chosen running with 4 plasma guns and a lascannon. They cost about the same as a laspred with a little more firepower, but suffer from the fact they are not armor and each hit against them takes away a weapon.

 

Chaos Terminators have some serious heavy support capabilities, but they are limited in their use. Combi-weapons are one-shot, and powerfists mean you have to close in on the vehicles. It's entirely possible for vehicles to use their superior movement to simply roll away whenever terminators are near, making them a lot less useful in some situations. They are also expensive - a unit of Terminators with combi-meltas and powerfists is the same as a unit of chosen with plasma and a lascannon.

 

Next up are the fast attack options, which have mostly opportunistic AV capabilities that are not always as impactful as their peers. Here's what I mean, these are our options:

 

- Raptors

- Bikers

- Heldrakes

 

Raptors get powerfists, meltas and meltabombs as AV options, plus they can arrive by deepstrike. If you can drop a unit of raptors within melta range, you have a good chance of doing a hull point of damage that round. But they are only useful when the opportunity comes up - if someone was to surround his tanks with a unit of cheap troops, it's not that hard to make it impossible for raptors to attack.

 

Heldrakes can take out light vehicles with their autocannon, but that's about it in terms of shooting. Their meteoric descent is capable of dealing with vehicles under some circumstances, but they will never be useful against AV 14.

 

Bikers are capable of being upgraded to handle AV with 2 plasma / melta guns, powerfists for their champion, and melta bombs. In any case, they need to close some space to be effective, and the range can become an issue. While they are Str 5, it's hard to imagine them surviving long charging a column of tanks.

 

Last are the troops. Really, the only troops option here is CSMs with plasma and lascannons, chosen can really only serve to get in the way. The minimum cost to get a unit of CSMs with a plasma gun and a lascannon is 165 points. Not sure if they are worth it compared to other AV options, but the FOC obligates us to take at least 2 troops. We just don't get too much here to work with.

 

What does this get us? I don't know if you noticed already, but the average cost of an AV unit in C:CSM is around 175 points. Our Elites and Heavy Support slots offer some solid AV choices, and the others are units that need to close in or are only good against vehicles that that don't feature AV14.

 

The game I cited at the start of this post was only 1750 points, the IG player did not have double FOCs to play with. How would a Chaos list look if it was built specifically to deal with this army? I thought about it, and came up with this:

 

- 1 CL with terminator armor, a power fist and a combi-melta

- 3 laspreds

- 3 helbrutes with twin-linked lascannons and missile launchers

- 6 units of CSMs with plasma guns and lascannons

 

I think I could get this in for around 1750 points. This list is not slam dunk, it's not balanced, and it could be wrecked depending on the specific options a Mech Guard player chose. But it could also be counted on to take out 1 - 2 tanks per round based on statistically average rolling, which is a lot better than most balanced lists could say.

 

I also thought about the Abaddon + chosen option, loading up on those guys as troops backed by laspreds could actually make for a very powerful AV list.

 

Wondering what everyone things and what you would do if you had to make a pure AV list.

[Urauloth]

This is an interesting topic and I look forward to reading the tactical discussion it generates, but I have a literary quibble: using "AV" to mean two different things in the same post is really confusing. I think almost everyone instinctively reads "AV" as "armour value", you may be better off using the more familiar AT to refer to anti-vehicle capability. Could just be me, though.

 

More on-topic: I don't think the launcher is ever worth it on a dread. An extra S8 shot doesn't offer enough extra firepower to make it worth stripping the dread of its melee abilities, especially considering that one of the crazed results would then be hugely disadvantageous to you instead of merely sub-optimal. If you could double up on one of the more useful guns, that might be different, but as it is I'd really struggle to justify the launcher/powerfist swap, even min/maxing to fight an armour-heavy opponent.

 

The heldrake seems like a great tool to have at your disposal here, its vector strikes should be able to wreck the side armour of most IG vehicles pretty reliably and the hades is essentially a volley of krak missiles. Only problem I see with it is that IG lists almost always include aegis, hydras or both, so it might get blown out of the sky before it can do anything.

 

For heavy support, I'd be inclined toward a mix of lascannon havocs (if you're likely to be able to dig them into decent cover) and obliterators (deepstriking lascannons are really hard to pass up against a tank-heavy list) rather than the fiend. A forgefiend might absolutely murder a transport, but it won't do much to a LRBT since it doesn't have the manuverability to reasonably expect to hit it anywhere but the forward armour. For de-meching I'm not sure it's the best investment either, since again you'll be hitting forward armour almost all the time, and it's both very expensive for something that'll be stuck with transport killing duty and also a big target for the templates IG tend to throw around.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Melta Plague spam, Outflanking melta Chosen and Khârn were my go-tos for anti-mech IG last edition. I suspect there'll be something similar in the works once I figure out a suitable replacement for the no-longer-Outflanking Chosen.

[Kraull the Rampager]

Huron. Bikes/Chosen. These will create an effective enough distraction while the other heavy weapons get into place to blast your opponent to hell.

 

That being said, the guy was a douche. In 1750, having that many tanks was a total dick option. That being said, it looks like he was over-pointed. LRBT = 150 pts standard. x's 9 = 1350 points. With no upgrades whatsoever. Chimeras are then 55 pts. x's 6 = 330pts. A single flier (assuming the cheapest here) is 100 points. Already, we are up to 1780 points. Not to mention the 6 squads of veterans the player needed to have, or the 2 platoons minimum and HQ choice that he needed to take to get the Chimera's. That in itself, is another 375 points (including Snipers per unit only). Totalling now, to well over 2000 points. Keep in mind, this is using NO upgrades, bar as many Riper Snifles that I can fit into those squads.

 

With almost 200 points over 2k. I think we can effectively deal with a list like this easily.

[Nehekhare]

outflank troops/bikes with huron/a steed of slaanesh lord. DS single or dual oblits and mutilators just infront of his tanks, avoiding LoS to his infantry. get necron allies with 2x 5 warriors + haywire cryptek in night scythe, 1 doomscythe.

[Excessus]

We might not have any drop pods, but we have 'reliable' outflank and infiltrate units with steed and/or huron, as well as we have some quite nasty fast units that can pack a punch in bikers and spawn. I would most likely just go for overwhelming his tanks with fast, nasty targets that all requires to be dead.

 

...speaking of spawn, d6+2 S5 attacks each on the charge and with a 12" move could grind down those tanks if allowed. Nurgle spawn with T6 W3 and hugging cover(that they ignore movement penalties in anyway) are quite survivable as well, especially if they find some ruin or rock to hide behind...

 

I think generally lots of nurgle units...