Teaching an Old Wolf new tricks

[Grimfoe]

Hey, all. Trying to come back into the game after (yet another) hiatus. I played mostly 2nd edition. I started retooling my old wolves for play a few years ago but was pulled back away from the hobby with illnesses/deaths in the family, business obligations, fatherhood, etc.

 

Over the past few weeks, I've reintroduced the game to my kids. My brother and I are starting an escalation league as a means to teach them the game. I'm scouring the new rules and there is a LOT that's different. I'm wondering what you've seen having played a substantial number of games in 6th edition. I guess it's like a True/False quiz. I'd really like your feedback in order to start modelling (remodelling) my force.

 

Here's what I've seen, so far:

 

Power fists are a LOT better. The movement during combat at each "initiative step" seems to really boost the survivability provided you're able to keep your fists in a squad.

 

Outflank seems very effective. Are any of you outflanking two squads are part of your standard force? It seems you could do it with an IC joined to Wolf Scouts and another IC with Saga of the Hunter joined to nearly anyone you want.

 

Are will still bothering with Drop Pods? Seems like we may be perfectly happy marching these days.

 

Is it just me or do the new rules on movement seem to make the Long Fangs much more attractive?

 

Also, aren't Long Fangs the perfect unit, with their split fire capabilities to man defenses that can shoot flyers? One to operate the gun, the rest to shoot whomever they like...

 

 

Anyway, I'm just looking for ideas to start. It looks like we'll be around 650 pts to start. I'm thinking 2 grey hunters packs, some long fangs and maybe a wolf priest. Not sure I like the power maul, though. How do you like it so far in the game?

 

Thanks.

[Brom MKIV]

Hmmm rather hard to sum up everything but Ill note a few changes/impressions:

 

5/6 missions involve scoring units. Also units cannot score inside transports. This along with rapid fire weapons able to move and shoot plus the introduction of hull pts to wither vehicles away = more infantry.

 

Objectives can now be placed deep in deployment zones, this along with aegis defense lines/bastions and such makes dedicated camper squads strong and appealing (again more infantry).

 

Flyers are capable of being very dominant and require dedicated answers or lists designed to mitigate their damage (i.e. infantry, barring encounters with the CSM dragon).

 

Allies have schewed everything making for some seriously powerful and even ridiculous lists (SW+ IG, tallyman chaos). Good side is everyone has access to the same units now so no more crying about grey hunters/rune priests/vendettas (in theory anyway). I prefer not to water down the flavor but to each their own.

 

Mech can no longer be "suppressed". Now it usually fires until dead although 3 glancings are usually a done deal. Overall mech isnt dead like the interweb initially declared, in fact id say mech is just as viable as ever although light mech took a hit due to the "wither" effect of hull pts. Other notable difference is assault from a transport is limited to assault/open topped vehicles now. Oh and vehicles are easier to assault now, no more hit only on 6s if cruising, this means krak grenades can handle nearly anything outside of land raiders and av13 dreads. Kraks made CC av12 dreads worse but this has been overstated by the internet. This along with proliferation of infantry has seen a move away from melta which also makes land raiders situationally more viable meta dependent. Personally ive shifted back to melta again because even av13 can be very hard to deal with, with plasma and missiles.

 

AP system introduced for armour + wound allocation + challenges means armour 2 is ALOT better making tactical termies good again (relatively). Foot wolves improved greatly due to being able to attach a TDA wgpl to each slogging pack for 11 man scoring units with rerollable 2+ in CC from the wolf standard...eat that mephiston (hes ap3 now). Outside of xenos almost every weapon of ap2/ignores-armour strikes at init 1. Fists didnt really get better, just more complex with pros and cons. Also the s5 ap2 axe is 10 pts less for similar application so usually the ap2 weapon of choice because it also gives +1 attack with bp/ccw.

 

Deep strike mishaps became twice as forgiving and along with reserves on 3+ always means deep striking lists benefitted greatly, especially since armies can no longer deny alpha strikes with full reserve, only 50/50. Outflank is better, and worse. Acute senses now means our outflankers will arrive where we want 8/9 times. Also reserves are more reliable but GW killed assaulting from reserves so you need guns or survivability. The additional wincons like linebreaker make outflanking decent although I prefer pods especially now with how reliable reserves are plus first blood and the relic really promote drop pods. Personally ive found a mix of pods and mech to be my preference although infantry is favorable to wolves more than most other meq.

 

Psychic hoods took a huge nerf so psychic powers are abundant now with the rune priest having the 2nd best defense in the entire game. Also wolves have no access to flyers outside of allies so a rune priest with divination is essential if you anticipate flyers (you should). I also run multiple twin linked asscans to assist the long fangs.

 

Changes to the AP system also affected vehicle damage chart bonus' making las cannons and ap2 weapons better and missiles worse (as it should be). Now plasma is like a short ranged cyclone with -1 str and +1 on the damage roll where missiles bring no bonus, so missiles did get worse by virtue of ap2 weapons getting better (actually just changes to the damage chart). Melta is still just as good. Oh and blasts retain full strength now not just for center hole so vindis are the shiz IMO (I run 2 for anti...anything).

 

LFs are still the best devs in the game and good vs flyers simply due to lack of our own flyers and a rune priest can provide rerolls to hit via psych powers. Also going to ground behind an aegis gives 2+ cover saves and doesnt effect your ability to hit flyers = very hard to remove LFs with flyers barring baleflamer.

 

Dangerous terrain tests allow armour saves, oh and big one is cover saves are now 5+ mostly.

 

IMO spam is out and balanced is the new broken..see BAs forum.

 

Dedicated assault units arent as viable now (except units like wraiths/hammernators etc) but hybrid shooty/fighty units are very good, ex: tooled grey hunters. Another example would be BAs assaults vs. tacs, IMO tacs are now better simply due to the humble bolter + overwatch.

 

Anyway ive probably missed alot and I could go on and on but maybe this gave you a little better picture. Cheers.

[Wulfebane]

Also the s5 ap2 axe is 10 pts less for similar application so usually the ap2 weapon of choice because it also gives +1 attack with bp/ccw.

 

I definitely favor the axe over the fist. That and it feels fluffy. Make sure to bury it and anything else important in the middle of your pack. Now that shooting has shifted to where the closest model(s) are hit first, putting a special weapon up front can potentially have Shooting/Overwatch phases ruin your day. Putting your TDA unit ahead of your PA models also means he can soak up the shots, especially when equipped with a stormshield. And since any TDA unit you put in a GH pack is undoubtedly a character unit, they all benefit from a "Look out, sir!" saving throw.

 

As for Overwatch returning... it is lovely. Grey Hunters still making people cry by being able to sit there and fire Overwatch, then let the charge come only to claim counter-attack. We essentially get 1.5 shooting phases, though there are some benefits to charging instead should that be your brand of koolaid. It also makes flamer weapons more attractive.

 

As Brom hinted at several times, Rune Priests are our way of saying, " :cuss you, flyers". They ultimately got buffed, despite the nerf to psychic defenses, so having 1-2 is a common practice. I've noticed moreso than in 5e that we are taking more HQ units since we're allowed.. mainly b/c of the new goodies. RPs and their buffs, and WPs making a resurgence with their Saga of the Hunter allowing Outflanking.

 

I find myself mixing drop pods with outflankers, taking a pod and putting it in their deployment, then making my opponent choose between that and a pack of sniper scouts on their other flank as I wait for my WP-lead pack of GHs to come in to mop up. I feel we benefit way more from pods now than rb/rhino spam as was previously so, mostly due to limited assault capabilities, and drop pods allowing for 6" deployment.

 

Last but not least, Thunderwolf Cavalry. We likes them. It's also about the only time you see a Wolf Lord anymore.

[Grimfoe]

I appreciate the quick responses. I'm currently working through the rules. I'm actually rewritting the entire rule set into a outline-type format with page references. (It will be much easier for the kids to find and understand the rules without searching through the fluff, etc, during a game)

 

I've only made it through the Moving, Shooting, Assault and Morale sections thus far, so the flyers and some of the other rules you cited are a little new to me, but I really appreciate the information. It will help a great deal as I read through.

 

 

I'm particularly interested in seeing how you flesh out your basic units. Grey Hunters: Powerfist, Mark of the Wulfen, Plasma or Melta, to outflank or not, etc. I can see what you mean about adding a terminator etc.

 

 

Also, are we using Blood Claws with Jump Packs again? They seem pretty viable with their lower point cost. Add in a Wolf Priest and the new rules for charging with the Jump Pack and they don't seem to suck.

 

 

What do you think?

[Brom MKIV]

I feel we benefit way more from pods now than rb/rhino spam as was previously so, mostly due to limited assault capabilities, and drop pods allowing for 6" deployment.

One of many things I forgot and this cant be overstated. 6" has been a HUGE boost to pod deployment.

 

There are many subtle differences that take time and gaming to catch (pretty much like every edition) for example, afaik theres only only one instance now when a unit cannot shoot at all, and thats when the units' transport sustains a crew stunned. Any other time a unit can at least snapshot including when gone to ground.

 

Another bonus to TDA wgpl's is again against lone ICs like mephiston (basically any ap3 character) since the new rule Morale Support gives rerolls.

 

Skyclaws still arent that great but I wouldnt say they are unplayable, their just not grey hunters or long fangs. Meanwhile as Wulfebane said TWC are better. Take a closer look at the jump infantry rules since you must give up the 12" jump move in the movement phase to gain hammer of wrath. Most people just dont.

[Wulfebane]

Skyclaws still arent that great but I wouldnt say they are unplayable, their just not grey hunters or long fangs. Meanwhile as Wulfebane said TWC are better. Take a closer look at the jump infantry rules since you must give up the 12" jump move in the movement phase to gain hammer of wrath. Most people just dont.

 

Additionally, with the reintroduction of Allies, most SW players just take BA Death Company w/ jump packs instead if they're really hurting for a jump pack unit. They may not be scoring, but they seem to hurt more, plus they count as a Troop slot, leaving you free to take one of the other four Fast Attack options.

 

For loadouts, it's somewhat preference, but some things that tend to be favored:

 

- wolf standards always if over 5 GH in a pack

- plasma almost trumps everything (not situationally) due to Rapid Fire and Overwatch changes

- As stated above, axe generally trumps fist. If you need that extra punch, lob a krak grenade imo

- motw is perhaps the most preference-based.. most people who take one, tend not to take an axe and vice versa. Some take both. Usually one or the other is mandatory.

 

And yeah, before making your list solid, I would definitely finish reading on the psykers, fliers, and battlements sections of the BRB.

[Valerian]

AP system introduced for armour + wound allocation + challenges means armour 2 is ALOT better making tactical termies good again (relatively).

 

Here Brom, this is for you: ALOT better

 

Grimfoe, I discuss the affects of 6e on many of our units (at least the ones in my collection) here.

 

Best,

 

Valerian

[Brom MKIV]

Here Brom, this is for you

That was funny but actually Alots are a elite choices for IG, distant relatives of the ogryn family...

 

Alots religious leaders are the runs priests you can read more about them here:

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=264574

[Grimfoe]

Thanks, Valerian. I like the thread. I think I'll take some time today to post my first 650pt list (probably with a couple of questions). I like what you did there.

 

 

Also, your army's come a long way in the past few years since I was a regular. Congrats! They look great.

[Valerian]

Thanks, Valerian. I like the thread. I think I'll take some time today to post my first 650pt list (probably with a couple of questions). I like what you did there.

 

 

Also, your army's come a long way in the past few years since I was a regular. Congrats! They look great.

 

Thanks Grimfoe, I've certainly spent enough money over the years to try to get them up to speed!

 

Welcome back,

 

V