Which Primarch had the worse Impact on his Legion?

[Emperor's Furor]

Who do you think, out of all the Primarchs, had the worse impact on their legion when they were found. I'm talking before the heresy when they where all loyal. Myself I'd say at this stage that maybe Mortarion and Curze could be the worse, the Dusk Raiders were very honourable before Mortarion joined, they had a lot of martial honour and held a lot of respect with the rest of the legions, but Mortarion changed that drastically to the stage he was being reported top the Emperor for censor. Curze, well I imagine the Night Lords didn't really gain much from having him, they received criminals from their new home world and a Primarch who clearly had problems and what ever reputation they had before hand was also destroyed.

[KarkassBC]

The answer is simple:

 

The "Missing Primarchs"... when the Emperor found them, he wiped the related Legions...

 

 

Really, I don't think the Primarchs made a bad work in the reshaping of their Legions... they only encouraged some peculiarity, preferring some and discarding others, but the Legionnaries were made by the same geneseed, so at the end they shared the same fate

[Lorenzen]

mortarion had his detractors but the emperor wasnt amongst them his anti psyker ideals fit with the secular truth & his brutal methods were laudable compared to the world eaters, night lords & in many ways the rout.

 

if nostramo hadnt reverted to its old ways curze may have been more stable.. his methods may have been approved who knows?

 

honestly i think lorgar was the worst influence.

[Archlich]

Angron - we all know why (basically destroyed his legion before heresy began - curiosu question: have they been "enhancing" only battle brothers, or Techmarines, librarians etc.... Making support troops crazy from adrenaline is an easy way to render your legion completely inoperative...)

 

Lorgar - obviously

 

Magnus - I belive TS had a shoot at surviving if:

1. No pacts with chaos gods

2. No mutated recruits from Magnuse's planet of psykers.

3. Hitting people with bolter ammunition instead of fireballs - heavy use of psychic powers accelerated\caused mutation

4. Probably kissing up to the emperor for salvation (I am postive that he had warranty card for that geneseed portion somewhere:) )

 

Besides I think that primarchs like Lorgar (he would be great politician), Magnus (could help daddy with webway), A&O (should have stayed homw with the toys:) ), should never lead their legions.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Lion El'Jonson. Took a perfectly sound Legion of Terrans, grafted Calibanites into it in what could only be described as a loveless marriage, then poisoned it from within by playing favorites before banishing the ones that didn't spend their off-hours licking his boots. All the holes Angron drilled into his Legionnaires' heads couldn't compare to the rot the Lion brought to the hearts of the Dark Angels.

[Arachnid99]

Lion El'Jonson. Took a perfectly sound Legion of Terrans, grafted Calibanites into it in what could only be described as a loveless marriage, then poisoned it from within by playing favorites before banishing the ones that didn't spend their off-hours licking his boots. All the holes Angron drilled into his Legionnaires' heads couldn't compare to the rot the Lion brought to the hearts of the Dark Angels.

 

Lion El'Jonson did a crap job but a bit of internal division, even if it led to the fall of Caliban can't compare with lobotomising your own troops. Angron has to win this by a country mile though as KarkassBC says the missing primarchs would probably beat him if they counted, but the don't.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Lion El'Jonson. Took a perfectly sound Legion of Terrans, grafted Calibanites into it in what could only be described as a loveless marriage, then poisoned it from within by playing favorites before banishing the ones that didn't spend their off-hours licking his boots. All the holes Angron drilled into his Legionnaires' heads couldn't compare to the rot the Lion brought to the hearts of the Dark Angels.

 

Lion El'Jonson did a crap job but a bit of internal division, even if it led to the fall of Caliban can't compare with lobotomising your own troops. Angron has to win this by a country mile though as KarkassBC says the missing primarchs would probably beat him if they counted, but the don't.

 

It certainly can compare. For all the damage Angron did to the World Eaters, they remained united as rage monkeys all through Terra and the aftermath up until Skalathrax. The Dark Angels fell apart while Terra was still smouldering, Caliban blew up, and fully half of the 1st Legion were lost. Respectively, which is worse, having a metal plate put into your head or degenerative osteoporosis? My money's on osteo.

[KarkassBC]

Magnus - I belive TS had a shoot at surviving if:

1. No pacts with chaos gods

2. No mutated recruits from Magnuse's planet of psykers.

3. Hitting people with bolter ammunition instead of fireballs - heavy use of psychic powers accelerated\caused mutation

4. Probably kissing up to the emperor for salvation (I am postive that he had warranty card for that geneseed portion somewhere:) )

 

I would give some mitigating facts on his position.

 

The Flesh Curse happened before Magnus and the Legion was on the brink of extinction before finding him.

 

The Emperor created the Thousand Sons Legion before finding Magnus and he never stopped the Crusade to try to find a possible cure.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm going to say Curze. He did such a number even the World Eaters went "Oh Schnikes!"

[yhta]

Magnus - I belive TS had a shoot at surviving if:

1. No pacts with chaos gods

2. No mutated recruits from Magnuse's planet of psykers.

3. Hitting people with bolter ammunition instead of fireballs - heavy use of psychic powers accelerated\caused mutation

4. Probably kissing up to the emperor for salvation (I am postive that he had warranty card for that geneseed portion somewhere:) )

 

Besides I think that primarchs like Lorgar (he would be great politician), Magnus (could help daddy with webway), A&O (should have stayed homw with the toys:) ), should never lead their legions.

 

so the TS will be fine if the were other legions insted the TS. well there were doomed from the start. is a shame but is true

[Apothecary Vaddon]

I'm going to say Curze. He did such a number even the World Eaters went "Oh Schnikes!"

I didn't have to be a prophet to see that coming. :lol:

I liked the two missing primarchs post. Pretty sensible.

[Kol Saresk]

I'm going to say Curze. He did such a number even the World Eaters went "Oh Schnikes!"

I didn't have to be a prophet to see that coming. :lol:

I liked the two missing primarchs post. Pretty sensible.

Hey, I'll be honest. I like the Night Lords because they have so many flaws.

 

As far as the two missing primarchs, i am neutral. It's possible they were wiped out because they were more humanitarian than the Emperor wanted them to be.

[Wade Garrett]

Ferrous Manus.

He removed any sort of tactical flexibity his Legion had (going by Feat of Iron, where one Iron Hands captain notes that it would be great if they still had jetbikes and other mobile assets instead of tanks and terminator armor and MORE tanks and terminator armor) not to mention that the whole "Slice bits of me off and make them metal" didn't start until they were reunited with the Gorgon.

 

Fulgrim might be an option but we don't know how much the ratio of "stuck up ponces" to "handle your business" was in the Emperor's Children before they were based on Chemos.

[Kol Saresk]

Ferrus Manus

the whole "Slice bits of me off and make them metal" didn't start until they were reunited with the Gorgon.

Interesting note: Angel Exterminatus gives the impression that Ferrus actually wanted some balance between flesh and machine but after his death some of the Iron Hands went crazy with it and started to go "Anti-Flesh."

[Wade Garrett]

Ferrus Manus

the whole "Slice bits of me off and make them metal" didn't start until they were reunited with the Gorgon.

Interesting note: Angel Exterminatus gives the impression that Ferrus actually wanted some balance between flesh and machine but after his death some of the Iron Hands went crazy with it and started to go "Anti-Flesh."

 

I'm waiting for the paperback of that in January, please don't spoil it for me. :lol:

 

That doesn't seem to fit with how the Legion is portaryed in Feat of Iron (in the Primarchs anthology) the Iron Creed is already well and truly entrenched in the Legion, and Ferrous says that an Iron Hand who removed his bionic arm to fight in area the eldar had magically warded to turn the Hands's bionics against them will be punished for violating the Creed.

 

I would actually recommend the Primarchs, by the way, Feat is a very good look inside Ferrous's head and made me like him much more than his previous appearance in Fulgrim, where all he did was get beat up by the title character twice and become much shorter.

[Kol Saresk]

Honest confession, I skipped that part of the anthology because he was dead. :lol:

 

Might go back and re-read it.

[Veteran Sergeant]

I think Angryon did the worst job, but he's also the worst, most two dimensional cardstock character among the Primarchs, so it's hard to really count him. As much as the World Eaters offer the most ridiculous fun for Pre-Heresy modeling and painting opportunities, they're cheesy cartoon villains. But yeah, giving partial lobotomies to all of your Marines in order to make them pointlessly angry like you are is a massive dick move.

 

Lorgar turned his Legion into preachy whiners and cowards. That can't be good, lol.

 

As it was said, Lionel Johnson wrecked his Legion with paranoia and internal division.

 

 

 

Of course, the actual winners are, Primarchs II and XI. Whatever they did, their Legions were erased. :icon_lol:

[Wade Garrett]

Honest confession, I skipped that part of the anthology because he was dead. <_<

 

Not to pick apart people's internal logic, but.....

 

Did you also skip Know No Fear, Prince of Crows, and Fear to Tread? Considering we already know the end game for Curze, Rob, and Sanguinus. :P

[Count the7]

I think The Legions would have gotten along better with out any of the Primarchs. The Terrans Like Longfang, Garro. Khârn and Astalan are all alot more interesting prospects.

 

Ok so the World eaters were allready "Angry" beacuse of there Gene seed is a poor excuse. Angron was the way he became due to "Nurture not Nature" so what would have happened if he was dropped on Macragge and Guliman was Put in a gladitorial Pit with Nails in his scull?

 

The WE may have had a bias towards close combat but so did a number of other Legions. But that would have been through Crusade experiance not beacuse one day they might find some erent Patritian Figure who is a mental case.

 

How much of a legions pre Primarchs Caracter was Genetic and what was based on the Experiances on the Primarches adopted home world?

[Emperor's Furor]

To be fair, the War Hounds were already pretty brutal before Angron turned up if you go by Betrayal, Angron just took it a bit further. I think Fulgrim improved the Emperor's Children as opposed to making them worse imo.

[Rain]

In Angron's "defense" the World Eaters weren't exactly polite dinner guests before his coming either. The new Forge World HH book heavily implies that they were specifically created by the Emperor as a terror weapon to be used against potential insurrection. As such, their selection programs selected borderline sociopaths and then put them through live fire trials that had the highest attrition rates of any legion, and unlike some training processes in which failed aspirants became serfs, failed World Eaters became corpses. He also held them in reserve during many campaigns in case the other other forces involved got "second thoughts" about some aspect of their duty, and only deployed them when absolute annihilation of the enemy force was required as opposed to mere compliance.

[Count the7]

But how much of that is pure Fluff filler? all Proto-Astarties and thunder warriors were terror weapons and Psycos that was the whole point of them during the Unification wars and the early Crussades. The thunder warrior Regiments and Legions were ment to be brutal and ruthless weapons, this dates back to the earlyest Rouge Trader Fluff, like in the last Church and the Out Cast Dead

 

It could be said that Guliman and some of the Other Primarchs ruined there own Legions by softeningthem with culture and compasion

[Emperor's Furor]

But how much of that is pure Fluff filler? all Proto-Astartes and thunder warriors were terror weapons and Psychos that was the whole point of them during the Unification wars and the early Crusades. The thunder warrior Regiments and Legions were meant to be brutal and ruthless weapons, this dates back to the earliest Rouge Trader Fluff, like in the last Church and the Out Cast Dead

 

It could be said that Guilliman and some of the other Primarchs ruined there own Legions by softening them with culture and compassion

 

I don't think it's filler fluff, it's the background of the legions before the Primarchs turned up, where they were drawn from, what culture on Ancient Terra they were drawn from. The Death Guard / Dusk Raiders were drawn from a honourable martial people that even the Emperor couldn't conquer and had to negotiate peace with for them to join up, they would honour deals made that if you surrender you'd be spared etc as long as you were human aliens however were given no leeway. However due to Mortarion joining and his zealots from Barbarus the legion ditched all the adds on, became nothing but attrition fighters and because of the humans from Barbarus being able to tolerate poisons etc they were sent into the most desolate wars which killed off any tradition left that the Terra born marines had left.

 

So no, it's not filler fluff imo, it's the essence of the legions before their Primarchs put their stamp on it and changed the legion for the better or worse.

[Count the7]

thats exactly my point. The Death Guard had there Martial tradition but when each.Legion left Terra there would havebeen very little diference between them. Ok so The XII Leagions brutality would have been only moderately differant from any other Legion at that Point. Angrons Caracter was Caused by the Butchers Nails rather than any genetic Legacy he left in the Gene Seed of his sons. unlike the TS, BA or SW whos Primarchs Legacy was Genetic.

 

Personaly i would not of put Angron in charge of a Box of Crayons let alone a whole Legion.

[Sons of Horus]

Night Haunter definitely