Demensional Key Potential

[Azekai]

Guys, I think I might have figured out how to use that stupid demon thigh-bone. What if we gave it to a character/DP who then attacked its own quadgun in the first turn?

Would that allow you to make reserve rolls on turn two? My codex is not with me at the moment- is there some reason why this would not work?

[Kol Saresk]

IIRC, you have to kill an enemy model.

 

 

EDIT: Just double-checked. Bearer has to kill an enemy model in the fighting phase.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Yeah, the words "kills an enemy model" in the D-Key's usage description is a valid enough reason why that won't fly.

[Azekai]

Thanks gents; I was afraid that the wording was something like that. Well shoot, I am officially out of ideas. Unless the enemy infiltrates next to your lord and offers a squad up on a silver platter, I don't see how that stupid item is supposed to work.

[Rain]

Now now, surely you don't just arbitrarily expect our rules to actually "work" do you? Why that would be positively un-Chaotic as we all know that Chaos is random. This is kind of a theme actually, quite a few things in this book gave me the reaction of "oh that seems kind of neat, oh but wait, no that does nothing. For example the murder sword, the dim key, warp talons, etc

[Istvaan Shogaatsu]

Give the Dimensional Key to a jump pack or biker lord/sorc. Smash said lord/sorc with retinue into the enemy in turn 1 if possible. Use by turn 2 to drop deep striking terminators next to lord for extra killification.

[Azekai]

Give the Dimensional Key to a jump pack or biker lord/sorc. Smash said lord/sorc with retinue into the enemy in turn 1 if possible.

You basically can't assault first turn, unless you go second, in which case your opponent would have to be a fool to allow such a thing. :P

 

This is kind of a theme actually, quite a few things in this book gave me the reaction of "oh that seems kind of neat, oh but wait, no that does nothing. For example the murder sword, the dim key, warp talons, etc

 

I know- it isn't even a question of playtesting! Had they tested these items, the obvious issues would have cropped up immediately.

What were they even thinking when the typed up this poorly designed rot?

[Kol Saresk]

Give the Dimensional Key to a jump pack or biker lord/sorc. Smash said lord/sorc with retinue into the enemy in turn 1 if possible.

You basically can't assault first turn, unless you go second, in which case your opponent would have to be a fool to allow such a thing. :P

 

This is kind of a theme actually, quite a few things in this book gave me the reaction of "oh that seems kind of neat, oh but wait, no that does nothing. For example the murder sword, the dim key, warp talons, etc

 

I know- it isn't even a question of playtesting! Had they tested these items, the obvious issues would have cropped up immediately.

What were they even thinking when the typed up this poorly designed rot?

I thought who got the first turn was at the "toss of a coin" so to speak?

 

And it was playtested. GW gave a big old "Bug off!" to the testers remember? Which actually makes it worse.

[zyl-]

I think the true power lies in it's ability to make all the terrain dangerous around the bearer. I would imagine that a comms relay could delay deep strikers so long as "reroll" actually means reroll to your specific advantage. Also, infiltration can get us closer, but I'm fairly sure you can't charge out of an infiltration/outflank move on turn1

[Trevak Dal]

Give the Dimensional Key to a jump pack or biker lord/sorc. Smash said lord/sorc with retinue into the enemy in turn 1 if possible.

You basically can't assault first turn, unless you go second, in which case your opponent would have to be a fool to allow such a thing. <_<

 

This is kind of a theme actually, quite a few things in this book gave me the reaction of "oh that seems kind of neat, oh but wait, no that does nothing. For example the murder sword, the dim key, warp talons, etc

 

I know- it isn't even a question of playtesting! Had they tested these items, the obvious issues would have cropped up immediately.

What were they even thinking when the typed up this poorly designed rot?

 

I think Chaos Players in particular are Angry Wargaming Nerds in the vein of the Angry Videogame Nerd. "Warp Talons can deep strike, but can't assault?! ASSSSSSSSSSS!"

[the jeske]

realy ? you think people are angry about that stuff . we would be angry ,If talons were 1+/2+ per army . if we had to take them , man the anger would had been huge . The codex right now is a huge made out of lost opportunity .some stuff could be fixable with simple moving around of slots , maulerfiends go in to elite , apostol/smith are elite , spawn again dont take up any slot etc. some stuff is unsavable [talons , mutilators , raptors] , the problem is while we are waiting for new csm models which everyone would like to have we got tons of new models for stuff that will rarly , if ever , see use .

 

and warptalons are costed like venguard , venguard can assault after deep strike and wow look , even with that rule , even in armies that can buff them a lot [like BAs] they are still considered bad. It would be as If GW made chaos terminators +3/+5inv and gave them fear as a rule , because chaos terminators are scary , but their armor offers less protection then loyalist termis , because its old and damged.

[Panda_]

I think the true power lies in it's ability to make all the terrain dangerous around the bearer.

 

This !

 

"From this point on, all models that start any phase within 12' of the key treat all terrain as dangerous and difficult"

We are supposed to play with "lot's of terrain", turning terrain into difficult ones is unique. To me, that's the good point of this key. Additionnaly once triggered, the lord become difficult to charge, and then you are fighting on your own terms.

 

Am I the only one with enough terrain ?

[Lepaca]

Give the Dimensional Key to a jump pack or biker lord/sorc. Smash said lord/sorc with retinue into the enemy in turn 1 if possible.

You basically can't assault first turn, unless you go second, in which case your opponent would have to be a fool to allow such a thing. <_<

 

Not true. Deploy offensively, use a cavalary lord (12" move + fleet assault ignoring terrain) and maybe ally in pavane. 1st turn assaults can happen.

 

Now that still doesn't make the Dimensional Key worthwhile me thinks. :o

[Kraull the Rampager]

I honestly don't see the problem with this thing. 25 points. NO scatter after it's personal little objective of KILLING ANYONE IN ASSAULT, across the whole battlefield. On top of that, all enemy models treat terrain within 12" as difficult + dangerous, which seems to be a pretty under-rated thing. I won't let my raptors go near terrain for example, unless absolutely necessary.

 

It seems like something you'd have to build your list around however. Not going to have 1-2 key units as distractions. Seems more something like...3 units of 3 obliterators, with a unit or two of Termies and a Unit or two of Raptors all deep strike into the opponents rear. Half your army appearing near your enemies line would be pretty scary. Especially with melta load-outs. Bye bye enemy tanks.

[Jacinda]

Kraull, we all know how it is supposed to work. The problem is your Deep Striking units start coming in from reserve at the START of your second turn which will be BEFORE the key is activated in all likelyhood.

 

The key will only give you a little more control of the table during the second half of the game. Expecting it to get your DS units on target is going to let you down. When used correctly the key is a useful tool; it is just not useful for that.

[the jeske]

if you want to use the key , then in a necron tremor staff build , where the lord [or most probably a DP] is an ally.

[Azekai]

Not true. Deploy offensively, use a cavalary lord (12" move + fleet assault ignoring terrain) and maybe ally in pavane. 1st turn assaults can happen.

 

Now that still doesn't make the Dimensional Key worthwhile me thinks.

Haha, alright, but that is a long shot at best. Even when you build around it the key might not work.

 

And Trevak, the anger of the those foaming nerds is but a pale shadow of my own rage. However, my views on our codex has been expressed elsewhere.

 

if you want to use the key , then in a necron tremor staff build , where the lord [or most probably a DP] is an ally.

Or you could take a writhing worldscape c'tan and not mess with the key's silly mechanics.

[John_f]

Also one could argue that "no terrain" is a subset of "all terrain" ei enemy models would treat open ground as dangerous/difficult.

[Kol Saresk]

I think that might be pushing the envelope a bit.

[spafe]

Really? thats how I had read it, that ALL terrian is Dangerous now, even Open. Open, difficult, dangerous and impassable. They are the different types of terrian, so surely if all of them are now dangerous in addition then whenever enemy move within 12" they are testing?

 

I showed this to my main oppenant and they read it the same way (Ie to their detrement) so had assumed this was how it is.

[Sception]

That's how I read it, and I still didn't consider it worth bothering with.

[Kol Saresk]

Really? thats how I had read it, that ALL terrian is Dangerous now, even Open. Open, difficult, dangerous and impassable. They are the different types of terrian, so surely if all of them are now dangerous in addition then whenever enemy move within 12" they are testing?

 

I showed this to my main oppenant and they read it the same way (Ie to their detrement) so had assumed this was how it is.

Hmm, fair point.

[Spaz431]

Consider utilizing a sky shield in conjunction to the key so turn two if not activated deep strike onto it terms no scatter let them shoot till blue in face. Get key activated drop warp talons or antitank raptors on enemy back field. Not super valid but terms can get armor turned up on sky shield and take 4+ cover saves. ONLY AN IDEA to maximize key.

[Agent Purple]

Ally in tau with positional relay.

 

Keep 1 redundant unit in reserves and use pos relay on it on turn 2. If you use pos relay you aren't allowed to deploy any other reserves (no FAQ stating this only applies to Tau allied detachment).

 

Use Aegis with comms to maximize units that come in on turn 3 after key activated.