Mantras Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 ADB has said on his new blog post that his next HH book will be called "The Master of Mankind" http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/ Words cannot describe how awesome this news is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I wonder...although the obvious conclusion is that this book will focus on the Emperor, I remember a colorpiece of Horus during the Heresy being the inscription "I am Horus. I am the Warmaster. I am the true Master of Mankind." Admittedly, I say this because I'm a bit twitchy about the idea of a God Emperor centric book...then again, it's Aaron Dembski Bowden, the author of my favorite Black Library book of all time, The First Heretic, which means that misgivings aside, I'm going to buy it. Thought: Perhaps it will be centered around the Custodes? They've had their share of screen time in the Heresy, but never a novel of their own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 It could be a compilation of Primarchs' opinion of him and their memories. It would be cool if it included early adventures of Horus and Emperor or Russ' contest with him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I wonder...although the obvious conclusion is that this book will focus on the Emperor, I remember a colorpiece of Horus during the Heresy being the inscription "I am Horus. I am the Warmaster. I am the true Master of Mankind." Admittedly, I say this because I'm a bit twitchy about the idea of a God Emperor centric book...then again, it's Aaron Dembski Bowden, the author of my favorite Black Library book of all time, The First Heretic, which means that misgivings aside, I'm going to buy it. Thought: Perhaps it will be centered around the Custodes? They've had their share of screen time in the Heresy, but never a novel of their own. They did have a ahort story. It wasn't bad, but I think the Custodes are limited in that they don't bring much to the table as compelling characters. There's little to no internal conflict within a Custode character, and their absolute loyalty to the Emperor means that they don't even have much agency within a story. It's all about following their orders and killing traitors. In First Heretic, once they found out that the Word Bearers had gone evil they went from considering the Word Bearers as allies to killing them just like flipping a light switch. Almost robotic, and not that interesting. ADB did mention that he isn't going to have the Emperor as a POV character. Probably a good idea, but it wouldn't be too bad if he had some Emperor POV stuff as a short intro to each chapter or somesuch. Nothing too detailed, but maybe just to try and drive home just how inhuman his viewpoint is, what with him being over 30k years old and the most powerful human psyker who has a crazy long term plan for the species. Of course that's one of those things that if you don't think you can nail it, then you should leave it the heck alone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Thought: Perhaps it will be centered around the Custodes? They've had their share of screen time in the Heresy, but never a novel of their own. This is a good thought. As is the Primarch's compilation mentioned above. Whatever it is, they need to walk the line carefully and yes, it's best not to even try to write in the PoV of the Emperor himself. I feel getting to close to this godly figure would diminish his stature. ADB did mention that he isn't going to have the Emperor as a POV character. Probably a good idea, but it wouldn't be too bad if he had some Emperor POV stuff as a short intro to each chapter or somesuch That I could take. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254133 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Perhaps a short collection of the Emperor's private writings will open each section, a bit like Dan Abnett did with Guilliman's proto Codex in Know No Fear? As for the Custodians lacking internal conflict..we are talking about Aaron Dembski Bowden, the man who wrote a Black Templar POV character with doubts and fears. I think he could make it work. Other possibilities: A Unification Wars story. Thunder Warriors...Thunder Warriors everywhere. A story focusing on the Imperial Army Regiments during the Crusade and Heresy. A story about the rise of the Lectio Divinitas, exploring some of the themes of religion, faith, and the human condition as TFH. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I remember a colorpiece of Horus during the Heresy being the inscription "I am Horus. I am the Warmaster. I am the true Master of Mankind." Read this as "Codpiece Of Horus". Gotta love how cool dyslexia is Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Well. Horus does have the blessing of all four Chaos Gods...including Slaanesh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 If anyone would rock a codpiece mightier than all others on his robot pants, it would be Horus. edit: Can envision a "Super Troopers" like scenario testing said Cod-Piece's Bolter-proof qualities with his Primarch brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I am literally 100% sure it refers to Horus. ADB has been chomping at the bit to do as many lead ins to his projected rise of Abaddon series, and this is going to factor into that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 If it is Horus, that would make a total of four Heresy novels focusing on the Black Legion. Meanwhile, my beloved Death Guards have one novel, where our Primarch has maybe five sentences of dialogue and the focus is on some Terran deserter who constantly whines about how everything was better back in the good old days when we were the Dusk Raiders. LIFE IS NOT FAIR!!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 In the blog he says 'Don’t ask me if the Emperor is going to be a point-of-view character. I’m not an idiot.' Obviously this can be construed in many ways, including that E-man might just feature in it. Maybe he will. But the story will be about Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I can see ADB doing that, but I'm not so sure he will. I can see this book focusing on the Imperial webway, with the Emperor featuring in the background thanks to the Daemons occasionally getting as far as the Throne Room itself. Maybe add in bits of Dorn and Malcador speaking with the Emperoror something for variety. It would be a nice change of pace to have a novel revolve around the Imperial high-ups during the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Perhaps a short collection of the Emperor's private writings will open each section, a bit like Dan Abnett did with Guilliman's proto Codex in Know No Fear?As for the Custodians lacking internal conflict..we are talking about Aaron Dembski Bowden, the man who wrote a Black Templar POV character with doubts and fears. Did he miss the part about them knowing none? This is the trap that a lot of authors, and many fans as readers, fall into. Space Marines should make relatively bland characters because, realistically, they aren't very interesting dudes. They shouldn't be subject to the same fears and doubts and concerns as a normal man. That's part of their mythology. They get psychologically conditioned for their entire lives, and exist in an encapsulated world of like minded and like-thinking people who have had that very same conditioning. Once you start writing "good" Space Marines, you're often no longer writing good Space Marines. I assume that you refer to Helsreach. To be honest, I started skipping a lot of his narrated parts because they weren't very believable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Excellent point. They're psycho-indoctrinated to feel no fear. Apprehension maybe but not fear. Plus, why do Marines scream when tortured? Shouldn't they be roaring? Or just gritting their teeth? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 personally, I always thought the "And They Shall Know No Fear" was just poetic license. What the Marine creation process does (in my opinion) is it allows the Marine to process and operate despite whatever fear he is feeling. for example, a Guardsman is assaulted by a daemon. the utter wrongness of the Daemon shatters the Guardsman psyche, leaving him easy prey for the Daemon. When the daemon assaults a Marine, the biological fear response is shunted aside by the training, and instead fuels the Marines anger. He still feels fear, but is better able to process that emotion and doesnt let it compromise him. this is all my opinion. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 But that's just you guys opinion on how pyscho-indoctrination works, and it is contradicted by...oh, every single depiction of Space Marines in every product Black Library or Games Workshop has ever released? So, obviously, however "real" psycho indoctrination will work when we finally get around to inventing it, in the grim darkness of the far future, Space Marines can feel doubt, anger, pain, jealously, and many other emotions. Sorry, but when I have to pick between how a random guy on the Internet thinks 40k should be, and every novel, comic, Codex, video game, and magazine article in the background saying what 40k is, I choose the latter every time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veteran Sergeant Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Actually, it isn't contradicted much in Games Workshop fluff. In fact, I'd like you to point to an example in GW fluff because I can't come up with one off the top of my head. Let alone "every single depiction" like you state with such amusing hyperbole. Black Library novels? Sure. But that's because, like I said, it's very difficult to write Space Marines when you're trying to shoehorn them in as the protagonists of a full length novel. The writers have typically foisted human traits on them, probably out of habit or to try to build more likable protagonists. Writing a completely alien mindset isn't very easy. Space Marines are functionally immortal, have lived their entire lives conditioned by pervasive mental programming, and exist solely to stomp on people's heads. They don't make good protagonists for stories. But they drive the 40K license, so novels are going to get written about them. I mean, you can dismiss my opinion rather flippantly like you have done, or you can understand the limitations of license fiction authors, lol. As far as comprehending bodily harm and an instinctual feeling for self preservation? The supernatural fear caused by daemons? Of course. That's where the training comes in and overrides. But the doubts and fears in everyday life? Nope. There wouldn't be the concept for it. Those are human social concepts brought about by our own feelings of fallibility. That isn't nature, that's nurture. Space Marines wouldn't get nurtured to understand that kind of failure. It would be entirely counterproductive. That was the part of Helsreach I found to be less believable. It makes Grimaldus easier to relate to for us, the human readers, but it definitely makes him less believable as a Space Marine Chaplain, the most fanatical of the fanatics, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 So uh, are you guys saying this is going to be about Elves? In space? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Mind telling me what the Horus Heresy was about then? If not fear? Lorgar was afraid of a life without worship. Horus was afraid of being forgotten. The legions were terrified of fighting another brother. Every space marine felt fear of losing their primarch. Anyways, back on topic: It isn't about Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantras Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Ninja'd by Telanicus on the Horus bit. What I dearly hope this novel will do is address some of the speculation behind the Emperors motives. As it stands, it is fairly easy to go "Well the Emperor is a bit of a moron really, didn't he see that coming?". As we saw in The Outcast dead with the bit about not being able to be all knowing and all powerful at the same time perhaps this will further shed some light on the Big E's motivations at some of the "stranger" junctions of the Great Crusade and Hersey. Might also tell us alto more about the Webway project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Sure hope this is not about the Unification Wars but rather focusses on Abaddon and/or Horus. These characters totally deserve the ADB treatment! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 In the blog he says 'Don’t ask me if the Emperor is going to be a point-of-view character. I’m not an idiot.' Obviously this can be construed in many ways, including that E-man might just feature in it. Maybe he will. But the story will be about Horus. Nice theory but there's nothing in ADBs comments to suggest anything about Horus. Maybe he's just being sly but I think until we hear otherwise we have to assume the "The Master of Mankind" will in fact be about The Master of Mankind, ie The Emperor. I'm hoping that BL have taken note of the largely negative comments that have been made over the portrayal of The Emperor thus far in the HH series and that ADB has been drafted in to restore the Big E's rep. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Marines can feel fear as was describing in Dark King when Kurse was hunting the Templar guarding him. The quote was something like contrary to Guillimans rash statement it seems Marines can feel fear, It is not the stinky,greasy fear a normal person would feel this was like a caged tiger,deadly Close to that at least. I totally jive with what WLK said they feel fear,just thier training is stronger than fear. That is why they make you train 16 hrs a day in the military even in peacetime,do something enough times and it becomes automatic,so when your brain stops working,your hands remember what to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus25 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I would like to see it be a book of short stories, opening with Human/Primarch internal monologe memories about interacting with the Emperor. Then the rest of the story being about the result of said memories effect or relation to the story. I believe that would be a good vehicle for the Emperor to get some stories some even voiced by himself. Maybe there is a grand plan he had that made him a Galactic Dick for the most part that only he knew and Hourus threw a monkey wrench at by accident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267160-the-master-of-mankind/#findComment-3254862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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