the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Try rolling 9 mutilators in land raiders bro. so considering one would run mon to avoid ID from str8 , it would be as if marines were runing TH/SS termis in 2 LR They dont get Forgefiend Maulerfiend Defiler. Im ok. your ok with 1 overcosted 200+ Lemman russ with av12 , one low A walker with again av12 and a BS 3 ~200pts dakka fiend. I think we have different views on what an ok unit is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If Forgefiends and the like weren't such damn expensive models to start with, I think more "low income" players might be able to rock them, but I'm not interested as they're WAY too expensive. So, I'd much rather have LandRaider variants. I don't see why we haven't got half the stuff the loyalists have. :) Hell, LandSpeeders are awesome! I'd love to use up my FA slots with those bad boys! And our Termies having Cyclone missiles. Just something! Ok, Defiler is awesome. But now they've got Flyers! If you think I care about the HellDrake Flying Bullseye, you're sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Steel Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 It would have been so easy for them to make the Chaos LandRaider a more unique unit by keeping the Dark Mechanicum theme and allowing multiple weapons options over having different variants; they even set themselves up with unique weapons choices (Baleflamers, Ectoplasm cannons and Hades Autocannons at the very least) in this edition of the codex to set us apart from the loyalists. I would prefer having variety and options to different variants- the loyalists are the ones using the Standard Template Construction for their vehicles meaning they are restricted to certain set-ups as the schematics they find might dictate, but CSM are supposed to: a) be unrestricted by conventional thinking and typical imagination b.) have access to daemonic inspiration and materials (none of which ever really have a conventional, or 'mass-produced' form) and c) be constantly reparing and updating their era old technology because *they need to to keep it functioning*- which would lead to field repairs and occasionally new configurations based on the needs of the next campaign because they don't have an entire Legion of reserves to call upon to be able to switch out a front line basic LR model with a special variant, they'd actually have to retro-fit the original LR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 If they can construct new titans of all classes then production of land raiders shouldnt be a problem , as titans are a lot more complicated to produce . also there is no new in w40k . chaos has better gear [jump packs for example] not because they are new or unortodox . chaos are better because ours are closer to the golden age gear . And Horus made sure his legion and the legions of his ally had more of that gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 There is also the fact that untill now, the only faction to get new units since 2nd edition was Loyalist spacemarines, and even then, the new units we got are "Meh" at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I dont know . Paladins , GH rifleman , purificators , SW TWC , storm ravens for both BAs/GK , were kind of a good in 5th , some of those still are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I dont know . Paladins , GH rifleman , purificators , SW TWC , storm ravens for both BAs/GK , were kind of a good in 5th , some of those still are. But those are Loyalist Space Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulminata Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I have several 'loyal' vehicles my Iron Warriors have captured over the years and use them in all games. I wanted a Land Raider that would be very useful in the trenchlines, so I created a Redeemer with the heavy flamers on the side. Now the new codex is out, they may become baleflamers instead of the flamestorm cannons. Plus, I needed a ride for my terminator lord. He kept dying during deep strike, and now that we have lost the ability to use icons to guide us onto the battlefield, well......enough ranting. I like the new codex, I would just like to see a few little tweaks......but alas.....we are traitor scum, so why would be deserve anything better...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I dont know . Paladins , GH rifleman , purificators , SW TWC , storm ravens for both BAs/GK , were kind of a good in 5th , some of those still are. But those are Loyalist Space Marines. oblits didnt exist in 2ed . they sucked in the JJ dex[but what didnt] , but in 3.5 they were good. auto include in 4th and still good now . and just technicly in 6th ed we got all the good demons and IG units . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I dont know . Paladins , GH rifleman , purificators , SW TWC , storm ravens for both BAs/GK , were kind of a good in 5th , some of those still are. But those are Loyalist Space Marines. oblits didnt exist in 2ed . they sucked in the JJ dex[but what didnt] , but in 3.5 they were good. auto include in 4th and still good now . and just technicly in 6th ed we got all the good demons and IG units . I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you or Ridcully. It's just that he said "There is also the fact that untill now, the only faction to get new units since 2nd edition was Loyalist spacemarines, and even then, the new units we got are "Meh" at best." and then you listed Loyalist Space Marine units. I was just pointing that out was all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargame insomniac Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Chaotic LR variants with Baleflamers, Ectoplasm cannons or Hades Autocannons would have been cool. Personally I would have settled for Land Raiders and/or Rhinos with transport capacity >10. Clearly our spikes take up too much extra space.... I would like to run a chaos LR as it is the only assault vehicle in Codex. Yet it's weapon do not mesh well with it's role and it is too expensive to accept being sub par. If it was either cheaper OR had larger transport capacity OR had better choice of weapons I would use it. Any ONE of those 3 options would have made me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Steel Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 That's definitely something I have been thinking recently as well- that the weapons options we have on our existing Raiders just do not seem to be good enough for the role that it plays; also one thing I have always wanted to know is why the hell does it mix anti-tank and anti-infantry weaponry on one model? It doesn't do either well enough, so it just means that most of the time you are wasting half of your shots per turn... I think it would have been much cooler if they had not released Maulerfiends as an ption and simply had a Daemonic Landraider conversion pack that turned the assault ramp into a gaping maw, and other mutated/ weird things like that, similar to a Soulgrinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 in 6th ed we got all the good demons and IG units . ...which do better without us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 We can sit here and yearn for better Codex things until Abaddon earns his arms, gentlemen. But what I'm wanting to know is if there's actually anything we can do about our Codex? We're the customers! Can't we write a whole slew of letters or petition an WD update or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not really, this is the age where all companies just see walking wallets, not customers, and things such as cars and phones are only designed to ladt about 5 years, 10 at the most, and the shareholder is what's important, not the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknightdrako Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not really, this is the age where all companies just see walking wallets, not customers, and things such as cars and phones are only designed to ladt about 5 years, 10 at the most, and the shareholder is what's important, not the customer. Not sure if this is a good idea but if GW made all codices over powered perhaps they would even get better sales? Cause I also heard that CSM was even outselling loyalists during the 3.5 CSM dex. Perhaps GW should realize that good rules also help sell models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 in 6th ed we got all the good demons and IG units . ...which do better without us. hey I didnt claim they dont . In fact if someone wants a for fun chaozylla list , it is better to use demons with csm ally , then other way around . IG are just playing a different game then us . But what I'm wanting to know is if there's actually anything we can do about our Codex? no , the builds are set. check what is played around the world and you will find out that unlike SW or IG or necron armies chaos sm ones seem to be clones of each other. yeah some dudes play 2x2-3oblits and 1 havocks and others play 2xhavocks and 1xoblits , but that cant just compare to how a SW mecha/slogger/drop pod lists are . Can't we write a whole slew of letters or petition an WD update or something? This made me smile . have you played chaos at the end of 4th ed , when the gav dex came out ? also one thing I have always wanted to know is why the hell does it mix anti-tank and anti-infantry weaponry on one model because it was build that way since times of old . twin las and a hvy bolter . It wouldnt even be that bad , if it just had PoTMS. If it could move and still fire or split fire , it still would be worse then loyalist ones , but we would have something else then a av14 bunker , which we hope other armies cant destroy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I didnt claim they dont just thought it funny you mentioned the same two allies that are discussed on two other popular tactics sites simultaneously atm as the near-perfect combo (with each other). depressing answer to the question of who to ally with: not with csm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 what people call depresing I call realism . But to be honest , I just cant wait for Feb to come and all those plasma units in a plasma edition to be shown for DAs. I just cant wait to see what people , who wrote that csm dex is like that because of 6th ed streamlining , will write about the DA dex. It is going to be so much fun :) to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Or those who wrote having gaping holes to be filled by allies would be for all say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 what people call depresing I call realism .But to be honest , I just cant wait for Feb to come and all those plasma units in a plasma edition to be shown for DAs. I just cant wait to see what people , who wrote that csm dex is like that because of 6th ed streamlining , will write about the DA dex. It is going to be so much fun :D to read. That streamline paradigm crap came up when 4th edition chaos codex came out as well... Which turned out to be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 It is going to be so much fun :D to read. most indeededly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yep, the problem is not a "new paradigm" or whatever as Necrons were written with 6th in mind and all that edition did was take the brakes off the pain train by making their silly Independence Day fighters a complete nightmare. The problem is that nobody in the current design studio seems to actually like Chaos. Andy Chambers and Pete Haines were actual fans of the faction, just like how Matty is a fan of Ultras and Kelly is a fan of Dark Eldar, so when they write those books they at least try. We just got a rewrite of what may well be the most reviled Codex in history with a few more optional upgrades (which I admit are generally fun even if there are not nearly enough) along with some ridiculous units nobody really wanted or asked for (at least relative to cult terminators or Chaotic LR/pred variants). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeraxen Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Can't we write a whole slew of letters or petition an WD update or something? This made me smile . have you played chaos at the end of 4th ed , when the gav dex came out? That seems to be a rhetorical question. I played Chaos 3rd edition briefly in my starry-eyed younger days, but I paused for awhile around the time the Gavdex happened. So, no, I didn't. >_> But what I'm wanting to know is if there's actually anything we can do about our Codex? no , the builds are set. check what is played around the world and you will find out that unlike SW or IG or necron armies chaos sm ones seem to be clones of each other. yeah some dudes play 2x2-3oblits and 1 havocks and others play 2xhavocks and 1xoblits , but that cant just compare to how a SW mecha/slogger/drop pod lists are . Not really, this is the age where all companies just see walking wallets, not customers, and things such as cars and phones are only designed to ladt about 5 years, 10 at the most, and the shareholder is what's important, not the customer. So that's our proverbial lot in this game-life, eh? Just to sit around and *cuss* about how things were better until the next 5-ish years when we MIGHT get a better Codex? That's similar mentality to the Legions fighting each other in the Eye until Abaddon kicks them into line and points at the Imperium. Smurfs/vampires/furries/gary-stus triumph while wicked men do nothing! Can't we at least consider writing a fan-made Codex like how this bloke did here: http://blazbaros.deviantart.com/art/Codex-...ition-327955702 [click the 'download file' button on the right-hand side of the page to view the Codex PDF.] Only we write one that appeals to what we wish our Codex was like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 I think the real reason is that GW wanted to make them different. Chaos has landraiders, Drop pods, razorbacks/landspeeders/etc they've stolen/kept when they turned. Anything else is trying to explain old era FX Makeup as an attempt at a Klingon Super Soldier program or a Disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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