The Octagon Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Hi, this have surely been discussed before but... The title say it all. Dreadclaws, drop-pods. Why did'nt we get our equivilent? Fluff states, (although not written in stone) that the traitor legions got them. Even recently turned traitors should have some in their armoury. Is it the evil Mat Ward who forced Phil Kelly to exclude dreadclaws through torture with Ultramarine love or what? :D Sidenote: if Dark Angels get mechanical lions and hatred: chaos space marines because of Ward, then I will scream repugnant words at my local GW store. Just wanted you to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Why did'nt we get our equivilent? because of old codex limitations . chaos has and uses both drop pods and dreadclaws , only giving it to use would make us even more like SW . now guess which army the DT likes more and which brings/brought more money to GW . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AekoldHelbrass Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 But Dreadclaw is forgeworld thing, as I understand GW doesn't take their things any more (we have Hades Autocannon instead of cool Butcher cannon). But you still can use it, it has Assault Vehicle rule now. The only problem is that Dreadclas is Fast Attack for us, and for one in a lifetime our Fast Attack slot is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 There was no reason to put it in the codex because it's in Imperial Armour Aeronautica and labeled for use in regular games. The only problem with the latest version is that it can't be taken as a dedicated transport anymore. Those Fast Attack slots have become precious, unlike in the previous codex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzimisce169 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 GW could solve all the hassle and rage coming their way just by stating that all 40K Forgeworld models can be used in standard 40K games as long as there are rules for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 GW could solve all the hassle and rage coming their way just by stating that all 40K Forgeworld models can be used in standard 40K games as long as there are rules for it. That still won't help me using dreadclaw, the overcosted droppod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 GW could solve all the hassle and rage coming their way just by stating that all 40K Forgeworld models can be used in standard 40K games as long as there are rules for it. That still won't help me using dreadclaw, the overcosted droppod. Points or $$$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazath Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I meant the ponts. Dreadclaw is like 30pts more expensive than pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I meant the ponts. Dreadclaw is like 30pts more expensive than pods. And it takes a FA slot. And the miniature costs 88£. That is another useless junk for CSM. We have tons of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzimisce169 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 for what it's worth, the Dreadclaw no longer appears on the forgeworld web site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 there is a good chance that with those changes the number of people actualy wanting to buy them is rather low. And if someone wants dread claws for his counts as chaos army , normal drop pods are better . cheaper too I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 obvious solution: use loyalist/HH legion rules, convert plastic drop pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 but you cant do that. HH stuff is stand alone FW itself said that. And while it is possible to find placed where you can use FW stuff [uk for example] , using drop pods in a chaos army would be illegal . there is no way to give them to chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 GW could solve all the hassle and rage coming their way just by stating that all 40K Forgeworld models can be used in standard 40K games as long as there are rules for it. A new thing they started doing: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j91/montismo/official.jpg Some Forge World units are now labeled as "intended for regular 40k", while other Forge World units are labeled "Apocalypse only." They are still Forge World, so we can't expect any consistency when the same unit gets published in two different books (such as the Hell Talon), but they seem to be moving in the right direction with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 but you cant do that. sure i can. i can play whatever i like as long as my opponent is okay with it :D and while FW stated that the HH FOC chart is meant to play battles in the age of the heresy, nothing in the book says the army list can't be used for regular play. it's still "a supplement for Warhammer 40.000". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastern barbarian Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 They would be pretty useful being assault vehicles if they wouldn't take Fast Attack slot. Unfortunately there are better things to take there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yeah I'd struggle to justify a drop pod that sucks up a FA slot you could be using for a heldrake, spawn, bikes, etc. Even raptors, although I think I'm in a minority for liking those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 but you cant do that. sure i can. i can play whatever i like as long as my opponent is okay with it ;) and while FW stated that the HH FOC chart is meant to play battles in the age of the heresy, nothing in the book says the army list can't be used for regular play. it's still "a supplement for Warhammer 40.000". only no one is talking about what you can/can not do . we are talking what the chaos community can do . And there is no way most of them can just put drop pods in their lists . A new thing they started doing: cool. and what do I see "official" [thats like saying unofficial] and the part about "your opponent has to agree [aka be happy] to play against FW models" . how is that different from what we had in the past ? and while FW stated that the HH FOC chart is meant to play battles in the age of the heresy, nothing in the book says the army list can't be used for regular play you know , maybe its a difference in language , but if here a rule/law say X is ment for Y . then it automaticly means that X is not ment for Z , unless another specific rules says so . Else you would have people riding around in APCs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nehekhare Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 we are talking what the chaos community can do well, everyone who owns "chaos" minis is absolutely capable of playing them with the rules that work for him/her, including for example SW, who have working pods. the chaos comminity is not bound to a certain codex, but by a certain idea I would think. "your opponent has to agree That's how it works, FW or not, isn't it? I at least have never played a game of good old regular 40k with a regular codex without my opponent agreeing beforehand... nothing in the book says the army list can't be used for regular play they say the FOC chart is meant for something else, not the list. see above: play whatever floats your boat, ask and be merry. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 A new thing they started doing: cool. and what do I see "official" [thats like saying unofficial] and the part about "your opponent has to agree [aka be happy] to play against FW models" . how is that different from what we had in the past ? The use of quotations can mean different things depending on context, and the differences can be subtle at times. In this case I believe that the Forge World authors are being dismissive of the idea that anything they do could be "unofficial" in the first place, not, as you have taken it, an admission that they are, in fact, "unofficial." Making sure your opponent is OK with playing against Forge World units has more to do with the norms generated and enforced by the community of players, rather than having anything to do with the developer's actual intent. Game Workshop wants us to play with Forge World units. That's why they make them. The previous confusion was over Apocalypse versus 40k. "Is this OK to use in 40k, or is it just OK for Apocalypse?" Well, now they've got around to telling us "this one is OK for 40k, but that one is not." And you want to argue about semantics? What they REALLY mean when they say "official" is that it's "unofficial"? That's just stubborn, sheer bloody-mindedness, The Jeske. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Yeah a faq from FW with the addition of a line like "...A Codex:CSM unit, that is no Bulky, and doesn't have the Deamon rule, of 12 models can take a Dreadclaw as a dedicated transport..." and be done with it... After all FW did a fix for a few things like the Chaos Contemptor being HP 4 insead of 3. Personnaly i own 2 Dreadclaws, resin molds done by a friend for a good price, and seeing that my only FA choices used so far is Heldrake, Chaos Stormeagle or bikes, but not necesarly at the same time, i can work with it, but being dedicated would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abadizzle Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 So... I'm curious- which FW book states that a dreadclaw is an assault vehicle? I just read the entry in apoc 2 that says 'dreadclaw assault pod' or whatever in the title- but nowhere does it state the pod has 'assault vehicle' characteristics. Am I missing something? If I can assault out of a dreadclaw I'd gladly pay 100 pts and $100+ per model... But I'm pretty sure I can't... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The actual rules says that it is an assault vehicle. But that´s the point. It´s worthless. You can´t disembark after shooking cause you count as moved more then 6". Same if you enter as a flier. Okay you can start the game in hover mode but that wouldn´t get you close enought to the enemy for an attack. As long as the Dreadclaw didn´t get complete new rules it´s useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 That's how it works, FW or not, isn't it? I at least have never played a game of good old regular 40k with a regular codex without my opponent agreeing beforehand... nope . normal stuff doesnt . you plop your army and play. you may hate his army or the player , but at best you can surrender. If your not happy about FW , he cant use it . It is in the FW rules. The use of quotations can mean different things depending on context, and the differences can be subtle at times. In this case I believe that the Forge World authors are being dismissive of the idea that anything they do could be "unofficial" in the first place, not, as you have taken it, an admission that they are, in fact, "unofficial." or they mean exactly what I mean. But going the ockham razor route , If I say I "like" someone or I"accept" something , what is more probable , that I dont like/accept something or that I dont accept something to be border as possible to like/? Game Workshop wants us to play with Forge World units. they may want many things , including the base game to be 2k points or more .Yet behold mainland europe 1999 and under happens more offten then 2k and almost never in pick up/random games . They also want us to buy warp talons , yet dont give them the rules for it . they make a codex after 5 years of a ball droped codex and make at best a luke warm one . GW in the words of JJ wanted DA players to ask for sm codex ss/land speeders/cyclons , no such thing happened till an FAQ was made for DA years later . That's just stubborn, sheer bloody-mindedness, The Jeske. rules say what you can do . they maybe stupid , they maybe imbalanced . If people could play the way they want , they would never play a single game , because everyone would want to nerf the opposing army in to the ground and buff their own. Or you would have to base the gaming on something else then rules .playing different with people that are more important they you or your friends or strangers , but it wouldnt be more balanced . it would open the door to team play , would make it harder to new people and harder to join new groups . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleal Baros Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I think you need to look into the latest FW rules Jesk, all 40k stamped units are now fully 40k legal with the only additional proviso being that you must allow and provide your opponent with access to their rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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