Terminator heavy chaos

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

I'm wondering how people think a Terminator heavy chaos force would work? Ie HQ sorcerers, either basic chaos marine squads or some cultist swarms for troops, the idea would be to keep the terminators cheap, only giving a few in each squad a closecombat upgrade, and perhaps going for about half of them with combi weapons.

Or is it like so many lists/themes where loyalists do it better?

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

For obvious FOC-related reasons we're never going to beat out Deathwing at their game. The other big issue with our Termies vs Loyalist ones is that we're outgunned by firepower Terminators and outfought by assault Terminators, nor can we make ours more survivable vs dedicated Termicide than they can make theirs, so our jack-of-all-trades Terminators are inferior in either dedicated role without the expenditure of so many points into making them as-equivalent-to as their counterparts. We only get strengths when we spend points on them, which removes the possibility of going mass cheap Terminators. Now, granted, it certainly wouldn't be expected for a CSM player to plunk down 30+ minimized Terminators or TEQs in <2000 points these days so it may catch some armies by surprise and potentially work out. Just don't expect it to be a trick that works on the same player more than once.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Is there anything we can do better or at least as well as the loyalists apart form dying? It's proberbly just my spectacular bad luck streak recently, but the chaos codex just feels, just as bland, lifeless, choiceless and competitive (or lack thereof) as the old one.

[Nehekhare]

just as bland, lifeless, choiceless and competitive (or lack thereof) as the old one.

competitively, I think it may be even worse: phil took our teleport homing/daemon summoning icons and fearlessness away, while "blessing" uns with forced challenges and providing NOT ONE new unit that doesn't suck compared to an imperial counterpart (ok, maybe the a**l turkey, but that's just the 6th flyer hype).

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Don't forget the Thousand son nerf, which was impressive as it was depressing and unexpected.

[the jeske]

which was impressive as it was depressing and unexpected.

realy :) 1ksons were always bad . in 2ed. both 3ed dex and the 4th dex too.

 

we do striking with ap 2 at I better then other armies . thing is that A melee isnt the center of this edition B ap2 is all nice and awesome till you start hiting opposing HQs on +4 and they save on +3inv C it is one model per army .

 

ah we do meq/teq infiltration better then other armies too. other have 1 unit [sicarius , shriek] we get d3. so on avarge we get more infantry

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Which was why we were not expecting them to get worse, stay bad yes, but worse we were not expecting.

[Lieutenant Steel]

Whilst Thousands Sons strike me as being bad (at least when used as anything but a scalpel unit for removing small units of MEQ) how do people feel about Tzeetchian (sp?) Terminator squads?

 

I've been looking at running a 10 man squad of Terminators with the Mark of Tzeentch as I think it would be the best choice for making them more survivable against anything which is used to compromise the 2+ save, and personally feel it's better than the mark of Nurgle for job of keeping them alive; I see a lot of plasma weapons in our area though (and in general everyone takes at least a few squads with plasma in most internet lists) as well as the obvious other anti tank weapons which might get aimed their way eventually/ out of panic) when they land and start disrupting enemy plans.

 

Or potentially 3 units of 5 Terminators (MoTz) with something like 3 combi-meltas per squad for deep striking close to tanks and acting as a distraction afterwards.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

They are tough, but they do eat up points quickly, so you need to use them correctly, and if you use them in a chosen/cult unit force, expect to have a hard hitting, but small force, ideally they need dome transport of some kind to get across the board quickly, but land raiders are expensive (both pts and £££).

[Xenith]

3x 10 terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, equal mix of swords and axes, mix of combi plas and melta. chainfist or two.

Ahriman

 

6x10 cultists.

 

Aegis, maybe.

 

Under 2000pts. Could make it under 1500.

 

Throw in Obliterators to taste to deal with enemy terminators.

 

Anywhere between 10 and 30 terminators infiltrating. 2+ armour mixes with the 4+ invun, roll on biomancy with Ahriman and hope for endurance.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

That actually looks quite good, though I'd be tempted to drop 2 or 3 squads of cultists in larger games to have a chaos marine squad or possibly another sorcerer in the army, and I could then have a squad of regular chaos terminators, and one each of cataphracti and tartaros...

If I had the money/models, I'd certainly give it a try.

[GlauG]

That would probably work pretty well in my meta, it must be said. Not many people field enough Plasma to effectively deal with my Deathwing/Ravenwing, so 2+ heavy Chaos backed up by mobs of cultist meat shields for camping on home objectives could work nicely indeed. I used to run two or three small Termie units with Reapers back in 5E, I'm not sure if I'd want to add those to this kind of list, myself.

[Xenith]

Yea, Ive only fielded a unit of 5 with MoT and endurance and they were pretty much immortal.

 

10 would dominate.

 

30 is horrific.

 

Just keep Ahriman jumping to other units when one gets whittled down.

 

Alternatively, you can go MoS on them, with the banner to get FnP. You trade this for the 4++, though, Its roughly better vs plasma, but worse vs other powerfists/lascannons.

[Lieutenant Steel]

Sounds alright but you wouldn't be able to join Ahriman to the unit (or model them appropriately 'Tzeentchy', which I'm interested in personally...) so I'd probably stick with MoTz myself.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

My current terminators are only painted in Thousand son colors sadly, though if I were ever o get more, especially if they were in Tartaros armour, my department has plenty of books on the Egyptians/Assyrians/Babylonians/ect and the British museum is only about an hour or so away on public transport ;).

[Lepaca]

You might want to take a look at my topic also!

[steve shields]

TERMI SPAM!!!!!!! No but really i made a list of 30 terms and two heroes and it came out to 1810, threw in some cultists and bring it on. i won't take this to a tournament but man would it be fun to play.

 

Lord 180

Termi

Khorne

Axe of Blind Fury

Combi Plas

Boon

VOTLW

Sigil

 

Sorc 190

Lv 3

termi

Slan

Force sword

Boon

VOTLW

Sigil

 

 

 

10terms 478

MoK

IoW

3 chain

4 combi plas

3 combi melt

Heavy flamer

VOTLW

 

10 terms 481

MoS

IoE

4 combi plas

3 combi melt

Heavy flamer

2x LC sets

VOTLW

 

10 terms 481

MoS

IoE

4 combi plas

3 combi melt

Heavy flamer

2x LC sets

VOTLW

 

20 cultists 95

Stubber

 

20 cultists 95

Stubber

[Cmdr Shepard]

3x 10 terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, equal mix of swords and axes, mix of combi plas and melta. chainfist or two.

Ahriman

 

6x10 cultists.

 

Aegis, maybe.

 

Under 2000pts. Could make it under 1500.

 

Throw in Obliterators to taste to deal with enemy terminators.

 

Anywhere between 10 and 30 terminators infiltrating. 2+ armour mixes with the 4+ invun, roll on biomancy with Ahriman and hope for endurance.

 

That's interesting. I was thinking about a similar concept, just out of curiosity, before coming here and read your post ;)

 

I was thinking about larger Cultists squads (for a less number of units, of course), an Aegis with Icarus and some SM, namely BS4, to man it.

I also considered Huron for Infiltrate but Biomancy upgrades are always nice ;)

 

I'll try to see what list I can write down for a 2000pts army...

[Xenith]

3x 10 terminators, Mark of Tzeentch, equal mix of swords and axes, mix of combi plas and melta. chainfist or two.

Ahriman

 

6x10 cultists.

 

Aegis, maybe.

 

Under 2000pts. Could make it under 1500.

 

Throw in Obliterators to taste to deal with enemy terminators.

 

Anywhere between 10 and 30 terminators infiltrating. 2+ armour mixes with the 4+ invun, roll on biomancy with Ahriman and hope for endurance.

 

That's interesting. I was thinking about a similar concept, just out of curiosity, before coming here and read your post :P

 

I was thinking about larger Cultists squads (for a less number of units, of course), an Aegis with Icarus and some SM, namely BS4, to man it.

I also considered Huron for Infiltrate but Biomancy upgrades are always nice :lol:

 

I'll try to see what list I can write down for a 2000pts army...

 

The cultists are 10 man, as generally they will be shot to pieces/if they get assaulted you want them to run away. A squad of havocs would gel well with cultist bubble wrap, and upgrade to more models to man the aegis gun.

 

Huron also saves points, but I have found that endurance and enfeeble in biomancy are ridiculous. Haemorrage is pretty much the only dud one in the list.

[zyl-]

Why not just a terminator armor sorc in the mix? We can field 2 with full biomancy if we so desire, and it's far less expensive than Ahriman.

[Sception]

Master of deception is why.

[zyl-]

Well that still leaves room for 1

[Cmdr Shepard]

The cultists are 10 man, as generally they will be shot to pieces/if they get assaulted you want them to run away. A squad of havocs would gel well with cultist bubble wrap, and upgrade to more models to man the aegis gun.

 

Huron also saves points, but I have found that endurance and enfeeble in biomancy are ridiculous. Haemorrage is pretty much the only dud one in the list.

 

Interesting point. However a 10 men unit will be forced to take a morale check as soon as someone open fire on them. A larger unit should be able to resist enemy firepower for longer. I agree about the Havocs and the aegis weapon.

 

Haemorrage is not useless if you have the Biomancy power that reduce enemy T: deadly against T3 hordes :D

 

 

Master of deception is why.

 

Exactly. Master of deception is very useful on its own but on a 10 men Terminators unit it can be amazing. Possible turn 2 charge and the ability to open fire on enemy in turn 1.

[the jeske]

turn 2 charge is a secondary thing . your opponent can always move away from you and you wont get to charge. the important thing is that , if you get turn 1 there is a good chance half the terminators will be in double tap range . if you rolled more then 1 squad infiltrating that is 4-6 lascannons[oblits] and 20 plasma guns hiting your opponent turn 1 . even with cover it is offten enought o dent most meq armies . even mecha can be HP hurt like that. and what is better , is that because only half the dudes use their combi plasma turn 1 , on turn 2 you have another 10 combi plasma to use and to start killing them your opponent has to get rid of 2x5 terminator models [am not saying that it is not possible , but it should be hard after such a an alfa strike turn 1].