Astral Aim and Aegis lines

[DK1]

BRB also says a unit entering the game from reserve cannot assault on the turn it arrives...but the Nid codex for the Elite Genestealers are allowed to assault due to its codex rule.

[Gentlemanloser]

That's becuase a codex rule is giving you direct permission to over rule a brb rule...

 

Where's the GK Codex rule that allows you to *wound* mini's out of LoS?

[Agent Purple]

Barrage weapons, the hive guards, and smart missiles all allow 'firing' at targets out of LOS but do not specifically override the 'wound' clause. By your argument, none of these weapons would work as they were obviously intended either. While looking at RAW I can see your argument, I think if you tried to make this case you would quickly find yourself out of willing opponents. I also doubt a TO would ever rule that you are allowed to 'fire' at a target but not 'wound' it due to this circumstance.

 

What if I part a rhino infront of the purgation squad? How can you claim that the ADL obscures you from the firer's LOS if the firer's LOS is already completely obscured by the rhino?

[Gentlemanloser]

Barrage weapons, the hive guards, and smart missiles all allow 'firing' at targets out of LOS but do not specifically override the 'wound' clause. By your argument, none of these weapons would work as they were obviously intended either. While looking at RAW I can see your argument, I think if you tried to make this case you would quickly find yourself out of willing opponents. I also doubt a TO would ever rule that you are allowed to 'fire' at a target but not 'wound' it due to this circumstance.

 

GW writes good rules, yes. House rules FTW!

 

What if I part a rhino infront of the purgation squad? How can you claim that the ADL obscures you from the firer's LOS if the firer's LOS is already completely obscured by the rhino?

 

In much the same way the BRB already gives an example of.

 

Being behind both a Hedge, and a Barricade.

 

This time, you're behind both a Rhino and an ADL.

[Agent Purple]

It's not the same circumstance because the Rhino completely blocks LOS to the model.

 

Behind is irrelevant. You said yourself, the test is 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer. The ADL does not obscure 25% of the model from the view of the firer, since his view is already completely obscured by the rhino. For the ADL to obscure the model from the view of the firer the model would need to be in view of the firer.

[Gentlemanloser]

"at least"

 

100% satisfies "at least".

 

Edit;

 

As for 'trying to game the system', I rather think that driving up to a Pathfinder Squad in a Crater, disembarking so your Rhino blocks LoS to them, then using AA to try to negate thier 3+ cover save is 'gaming the system'.

 

Rather than following the printed rules, that not only allow units to have access to multiple, different, cover saves at the same time, but also rules they always use the best avaialble.

[DarkGuard]

OK then, RAW I believe GL is right about not being able to wound models out of LoS with AA and similar abilities. RAI I believe most can agree that they should, and that's what the last few posts have been RAW vs RAI on that particular issue.

 

So can we get back to the multiple cover save debate, I feel there's still more to be hashed out there re. RAW.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, my interpretation, is the 4+ unmodifyable cover save granted by AA is there to represent the Cover Save given by the object that Obscures you 100%.

 

So, standing in a Crater, behind a rhino, you would either get a 4+ Unmodifable cover save, or a 5+ cover save from the Crater. Which culd be modifyable by stealth, Camo cloaks, going to ground, etc.

 

It should be undenyable RAW that;

 

1) You can have multiple different cover saves

2) You always use the best save possible

 

We're literally smacked round the face by this in the BRB. :D

[Techmarine Data007]

My take is that the completely lack of line of sight allows the 4+ cover. What it doesn't disallow or ignore is the cover given by other sources. As such, if you're in anything better than 4+, then you can use that. The wording to me says that any other improvements to that 4+, though, are disallowed. I.E. No stealth, etc...