ADL vs Bastion.

[Brother Amarel]

I've noticed that the Aegis Defence Line seems to be a lot more popular than the Bastion, but I was just wondering why it is for most people? I'm assuming it's the extra coverage plus the issue with the Bastion needing one unit on the roof for the Quad and one in the Bastion itself to fire the Heavy Bolters. Is there so little value associated with the full height coverage of the Bastion?

[Panda_]

My guesses :

1. Penny wise, the ADL is cheaper
   
2. The bastion is a building, while the ADL is a bunch of barricades. Which is easier to transport ?
   
3. How many people bought ADL in 5ed, to build Rifle Dreads ?
   

[Iron_Within]

I use both. The bastion is a terrifying obstacle for many opponents. With Havocs inside and a cultists manning the quad cannon it puts out a lot of firepower and can take a beating.

I think my opponents primary tactic is to try and ignore it or to focus on it. Either way I start dictating the battle. The only thing I've never used it against is the Tau. With that many S10 AP2 I worry that it wouldn't last 5 minutes.

I have modelled mine "for advantage" as some whingy types in my club say; more they are taking the urine. My heavy Bolters have about a 210 degree arc of fire each as my is scratch built as a pentagon (fluff reasons, each side representing one aspect of the unbreakable litany)

 

I've used the ADL as well, but part of me doesn't find it as satisfying as the big five sided box o doom

[Sception]

A handful of boring walls with imperial insignia vs. a home made, fluff based tower of doom? Yeah, I could see the latter being more satisfying.

 

In general, though, the ADL can benefit more units at once, is easier to transport & set up, can't be killed, provides cover for tanks, costs less money, is easier to scratch build if you want to spend even less, and costs fewer points in game.

[Lepaca]

ADL is cheaper. Units behind it can score.

 

So I'd go for the ADL.

[Sception]

Units behind it can score.

 

Yet another major point in the ADL's favor.

[Iron_Within]

Well yes units behind the ADL can score but that's why the first thing you do with objectives is place it within 6" of your bastion so any unit jumping out can immediately claim/contest; plus anyone wanting to go for that objective has to run into your guns. It's what I do with objectives, when using a bastion. It's a lynchpin the rest of the army deploys around and sallies from. Meaning to get to the 1 or 2 objectives there your opponent has to go through your whole army

[Kythnos]

I have modelled mine "for advantage" as some whingy types in my club say; more they are taking the urine. My heavy Bolters have about a 210 degree arc of fire each as my is scratch built as a pentagon (fluff reasons, each side representing one aspect of the unbreakable litany)

 

My Warsmith expressed a certain interest in blueprints or visual data of your fortress (he also said something about reducing it to rubble if you wold not meet his request... he's just that grumpy) :(

[the jeske]

ADL if you run havocks and/or IG ally.

bastion if you play a tally list over 1750 pts .

[Warsmith Aznable]

ADL if you run havocks and/or IG ally.

bastion if you play a tally list over 1750 pts .

 

Are you hiding Epidemius in the bastion? That's an interesting idea...

[the jeske]

behind the bastion . you put the bastion in the corner , you dont put anything inside . un maned fortifications cant be shot at and it should be far away from the enemy , you will have to worry about multiple barrage indiriect fire[more or less IG] .

[Brother Amarel]

Excellent well ADL for me it is then ;).

[Wolf Guard Dan]

the jeske, that is pretty clever. +2 internet points for you (:

 

Do you have a suggestion for what type of havocs to place with the ADL? Or gun suggestion?

[Brother Amarel]

Do you have a suggestion for what type of havocs to place with the ADL? Or gun suggestion?

First set of Havocs are generally Autocannon.

[the jeske]

the jeske, that is pretty clever. +2 internet points for you (:

 

Do you have a suggestion for what type of havocs to place with the ADL? Or gun suggestion?

 

not my idea. First dudes that were using this were necron storm lord flyer builds . they were puting him out of LoS and more or less unchargable for 2 turns [and after 2 turns they dont care , so much , if he lives or not].

 

AC havocks for the Aegis most of the time . Rocket launchers, only if you play a lot against dual foc nids or demons 5 MC builds .

[Iron_Within]

I have modelled mine "for advantage" as some whingy types in my club say; more they are taking the urine. My heavy Bolters have about a 210 degree arc of fire each as my is scratch built as a pentagon (fluff reasons, each side representing one aspect of the unbreakable litany)

 

My Warsmith expressed a certain interest in blueprints or visual data of your fortress (he also said something about reducing it to rubble if you wold not meet his request... he's just that grumpy) :blink:

 

I'll upload a picture of it in the next day or so. It's not finished but you got a good idea of where it's at (part painted, I'm not satisfied with the side sponsons so I'm going to rework them, make then look a little more like concrete blister pods, something more permanent than predator sponsons)

[minigun762]

I'm considering bastion in an armor heavy lists, but it's difficult to debate whether AV14 will really draw that much fire when you're using AV11-13 normally.

[Iron_Within]

Well that's the great thing about it, if they ignore it then you have it's firepower to punish them with (two firepoints on each facing meaning 4 can fire out), if they do target it you're ramming your MFiend, bikes and the like down their throat. If they shoot at it it's not the easiest thing to kill as well; anything that isn't AP2 cannot destroy it only damage it, then AP2's are only killing it on a natural 6 on the damage chart, everything else just wounds it, I would never put anything other than marines inside though, to many S6 hits from damage inflicted.

[Jonah]

The aegis gives a 2+ cover save to guys inside if they go to ground as well. Pretty tasty on some cheap cultists. And if they fire the gun during the opponent's movement turn they don't even care about hitting the dirt because they can't fire next turn anyway.

[Iron_Within]

The Bastions roof gives a 3+ Cover saver before going to ground.... Only problem is when the building takes damage the Cultists can take anything up to 2D6 S3 hits for a single Penetrating hit

[Jonah]

The Bastions roof gives a 3+ Cover saver before going to ground.... Only problem is when the building takes damage the Cultists can take anything up to 2D6 S3 hits for a single Penetrating hit

 

That's the problem really. I saw a game where a lucky Lascannon rolled two 6s and crumbled both the building and the havocs ontop. Luck or not you can't do that to an Aegis.

 

I like the bastion a lot, it just comes with the same risks as a Landraider.

[Warsmith Aznable]

un maned fortifications cant be shot at

 

That is something I did not know. I really need to re-read the newer general rules.

[Urauloth]

Bastion seems like a neat thing to have around, but the flexibility of the ADL and the fact that it can't be turned into a multi-unit deathtrap by a lucky ordnance hit gives it the edge imo. It's what I'll be going for, I think - much as I'd love to chaos up a bastion.