Mephiston

[Zynk Kaladin]

Welp, after painting my beautiful scythe(count as axe) prescience JP librarian, for some mysterious reason I thirst for mephy in my list. I usually run 2 ravens, 2-3 RAS with sang. priest, and I'm now leaning towards using a talon furioso deployed via raven. I'm torn between putting him in the other Raven or keeping him with the RAS as mobile cover and using Wings. How do you Mephiston veterans usually get his glorious T6 death-train across the field of battle?

 

Also, I normally face guard with a lot of high strength weapons. Using this 250 point can of whoop-butt-shell-magnet makes me sweat a little. Would it be common to lose him often against guard? Can I assume the best targets for him would be to bench press some tanks to death?

[Sokhar]

Put him on the table using Wings. If he's on a Raven the absolute earliest he can get into assault is turn 3, and that depends on your Raven showing up on time. If the bird is delayed, you're looking at almost 500 points of your army doing absolutely nothing. Mephiston is essentially a flying monstrous creature that's barely larger than a single Marine. Its not that difficult to hide him out of line of sight as he moves forward. Or as you pointed out, he can use Assault Marines as a screen.

 

Guard definitely has the tools to put down Mephiston. I once lost him in a single shooting phase to Guard, at 1k points. That was a bit disheartening, he ate rapid-firing plasma vet squad and a vendetta's full attention. Did give enough time for the rest of my army to hammer them though. That's the essence of using Mephiston. If your opponent has played against him before, he'll fear him and take necessary precautions. This can help you dictate the flow of battle. When it comes time for him to get stuck in, point him at crucial enemy units, don't get him bogged down murdering scrubs. If you can get him into the back ranks where he's able to flip expensive battle tanks (Russes, Manticores, etc) then that's a worthwhile use of him. Just don't have him fly off to wreck a lone Chimera so that the squad inside can shoot at him at their leisure.

 

In the right situations Mephiston can pretty much win games for you by himself.

[Deschenus Maximus]

In Raven gets my vote. Better to arrive later and alive, than not arrive at all. Also, being in a Raven means you can switch out your normal powers for Biomancy. A potentialy S/T 7-9 Mephiston regenerating wounds is no laughing matter. In fact, aside from Hemmorage and Smite, the Biomancy powers are all pretty decent.

[liberate_tutame]

I think that it is crazy to put a fleeting T6 space marine sized model that can fly in a metal box that he can only get out of half way through the game. Mephiston has vast range, is very tough, lots of wounds but his biggest asset to my game, I've found, is as this massive disruption and distraction unit that my opponent has to deal with.

 

Better to arrive later and alive, than not arrive at all.

Actually the only danger of him not arriving is if he comes in on a Raven. A game might end on Turn 5. If he doesn't come in on Turn 2 or 3 he might only see one turn of charging. Madness. Never mind that interceptors means he might just be taking a S10 hit for no benefit whatsoever.

[Zynk Kaladin]

Hmm, so it looks like both ways are feasible, which actually could add some hidden flexibility to my list. Depending on who I face could choose how I use Mephy which is always nice; however, I'm a huge newbie at knowing what tactics to use in different situations.

 

Also, I forgot to mention that because I run 2 ravens I always purchase the comms relay. I just can't afford to have delays in my reserves so I feel it is worth the points.

 

I never thought about a Biomancy Mephiston. It looks pretty interesting.

 

thanks!

[Zynk Kaladin]

I think that it is crazy to put a fleeting T6 space marine sized model that can fly in a metal box that he can only get out of half way through the game. Mephiston has vast range, is very tough, lots of wounds but his biggest asset to my game, I've found, is as this massive disruption and distraction unit that my opponent has to deal with.

 

Hmm, that's a good consideration, too: the fact that he has fleet. Getting into close combat with rerolls to charge range is a lot more feasible.

 

Excellent... :)

[Deschenus Maximus]

Actually the only danger of him not arriving is if he comes in on a Raven. A game might end on Turn 5. If he doesn't come in on Turn 2 or 3 he might only see one turn of charging. Madness. Never mind that interceptors means he might just be taking a S10 hit for no benefit whatsoever.

 

With 2+ Ravens, you would be crazy not to take a Comms Relay. As for being intercepted, any air defence your opponent has should be dead on T1. You can't allow him to get free shots at your planes.

[Zynk Kaladin]

With 2+ Ravens, you would be crazy not to take a Comms Relay. As for being intercepted, any air defence your opponent has should be dead on T1. You can't allow him to get free shots at your planes.

 

Oh, well this is awkward... I actually have very little to none turn 1 capabilities except for drop pod bolter death company. Even with long range weapons, can't my opponent just screen their anti-air defenses anyway?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Even with long range weapons, can't my opponent just screen their anti-air defenses anyway?

 

If he has sufficiently big tanks, yes. That is something you may have to contend with.

[Zynk Kaladin]

If he has sufficiently big tanks, yes. That is something you may have to contend with.

 

Sounds like just another day on the battlefield. ^_^

[Morticon]

I vote on the field.

 

On the field he helps saturate target priority and you force the enemy to play completely differently when hes on the board. You can mess with entire set ups if you so wish with the help of him.

[Zhukov]

With 2+ Ravens, you would be crazy not to take a Comms Relay.

Dunno man. It's even more points you put into the Ravens. I personally preffer having more units on the board so I can afford a Raven coming up late. And hey, maybe you roll reserve manipulation for your general trait or on the divination table ^_^

 

I vote for Mephiston on board 95% of the times. Why? Stormraven + Mephy equals nearly 500 points while Mephy wont do anything the turn the Raven comes on. This is like playing with a deathstar which is not on the table: The rest of your army will suffer greatly in its absence.

 

And unless I'm mistaken (can't check from here and this is what I remember) the Stormraven has to go in non-flier mode the turn Mephy wants to disembark and charge. Which basicly means you just sacrificed the Stormraven. Not good.

 

These are reasons why I wouldn't want him on a Raven, but the reason why I want him on the board are just as important: He's a giant threat to a lot of things, with a good threat radius, this gives great board control.

He's also decently survivable, so unless you make some horrible mistakes or play on a really bad table he shouldn't die easily. (if you get rapidfired by 8 plasmaguns something went wrong, really)

[Xenith]

On the field with wings.

 

Meph should be up front and centre T2.

 

If your opponent shoots the ravens, he doesnt shoot Mephy and loses.

 

If your opponent shoots the Mephy, he doesnt shoot the Ravens and loses.

[Zhukov]

If your opponent shoots the ravens, he doesnt shoot Mephy and loses.

 

If your opponent shoots the Mephy, he doesnt shoot the Ravens and loses.

What if he shoots both?

[Ushtarador]

Then you're playing too many points and should have more ravens and mephis -_-

[Bartali]

With 2+ Ravens, you would be crazy not to take a Comms Relay.

Dunno man. It's even more points you put into the Ravens. I personally preffer having more units on the board so I can afford a Raven coming up late. And hey, maybe you roll reserve manipulation for your general trait or on the divination table -_-

 

I vote for Mephiston on board 95% of the times. Why? Stormraven + Mephy equals nearly 500 points while Mephy wont do anything the turn the Raven comes on. This is like playing with a deathstar which is not on the table: The rest of your army will suffer greatly in its absence.

 

And unless I'm mistaken (can't check from here and this is what I remember) the Stormraven has to go in non-flier mode the turn Mephy wants to disembark and charge. Which basicly means you just sacrificed the Stormraven. Not good.

 

These are reasons why I wouldn't want him on a Raven, but the reason why I want him on the board are just as important: He's a giant threat to a lot of things, with a good threat radius, this gives great board control.

He's also decently survivable, so unless you make some horrible mistakes or play on a really bad table he shouldn't die easily. (if you get rapidfired by 8 plasmaguns something went wrong, really)

 

Saved me having to post the above, agree 100%. Stormraven is rubbish as an Assault Transport, at most you'll be wanting to put five scouts in there to skies of blood on turn 4/5. Otherwise, always empty.

[Ushtarador]

A stormraven is actually a great tool to deliver furioso and dc dreads, I would want at least one dread flying around in every game. The ability to wipe out an entire squad of marines without losing anything ist just insane. Also, by turn 3 you should have killed enough AV-guns in the vicinity to hover your raven safely.

[Zhukov]

A stormraven is actually a great tool to deliver furioso and dc dreads, I would want at least one dread flying around in every game.

Well there is also the risk of having the Stormraven getting blown up, in which case the DC/Dreads get a S10 Ap2 hit. 350+ points potentially dying in 1 hit? Not what I'd advice for competitive play.

 

Also, by turn 3 you should have killed enough AV-guns in the vicinity to hover your raven safely.

Killing so much Anti-tank that the oppenent can't threaten an Av12 vehicle anymore? In 3 turns? While you have 350+ points reserved? That's a bit unrealistic don't you think?

[Ushtarador]

How often did you have our stormraven exploded in turn 2? It has never happened to me yet, not even against dual vendettas.

 

By turn 3, you can shoot twice with that raven and assault something with the furioso. Also, mephi should be wrecking havoc by now, and your ASM can charge as well. AV12 and immune to melta is pretty good, and you still got that 5+jink save, it's pretty safe in my experience.

[Zhukov]

How often did you have our stormraven exploded in turn 2? It has never happened to me yet, not even against dual vendettas.

In cases like this math is sufficient. Enough armies have relevant odds (>10% chance) of this happening. And as when this happens it will cause you to outright losing a game, I say it's too risky for competitive play. If you don't mind losing a game once and a while to this (in other words: if you accept this risk), then go ahead! It's a fun 'tactic' and the most reliable way of getting Dreads into combat.

 

By turn 3, you can shoot twice with that raven and assault something with the furioso. Also, mephi should be wrecking havoc by now, and your ASM can charge as well. AV12 and immune to melta is pretty good, and you still got that 5+jink save, it's pretty safe in my experience.

We both know this doesn't answer my question, which is fine. If you can afford to let your Stormraven go into hover-mode Turn 3 without it getting blown up, good for you!

[Morticon]

Whilst I wouldnt put mephy in there in most missions, a dready is a different story. The way I play, (fast and aggressive) means that by turn3 I have so much in the enemies face, that I dont mind if they put fire into the ravens.

The raven's ability to get a 4+ cover save on the turn he drops off the dready also helps with it's survivability.

 

Thing is, it all depends on the army im facing. If i need the ravens more much than I need the dreads to charge, then they can keep zooming.

[Zhukov]

Nice explaination, makes sense.

[Sokhar]

And unless I'm mistaken (can't check from here and this is what I remember) the Stormraven has to go in non-flier mode the turn Mephy wants to disembark and charge. Which basicly means you just sacrificed the Stormraven. Not good.

 

Mostly true, though not entirely. Mephiston can exit the Raven the turn it arrives using Skies of Blood, and thus never require the Raven to hover. However if you put him onboard the Raven to use it as an assault vehicle and roll rulebook powers, that can hurt your ability to charge next turn if you either can't deep strike close enough, or if you scatter a large amount. Mephiston being fleet can help minimize some of that risk, but Mephiston's powers suit him so well that I can't really consider trading them out as being a wise option. Doesn't mean I won't hope my allied Rune Priest rolls Endurance so I can cast it on Mephi though. :P

[Bartali]

A stormraven is actually a great tool to deliver furioso and dc dreads, I would want at least one dread flying around in every game. The ability to wipe out an entire squad of marines without losing anything ist just insane. Also, by turn 3 you should have killed enough AV-guns in the vicinity to hover your raven safely.

 

The problems with using Ravens as an assault transport are fivefold :-

 

1. The Stormravens start in reserve. The more points you invest into units transported Ravens, the less you have starting on the table.

2. Stormravens aren't reliable. You rely on a dice roll to bring them on to the table

3. The transported unit gets S10 AP2 hits if the Raven explodes while zooming

4. You need to enter hover mode for transported units to assault from them

5. Delivering Assault units can preclude you from shooting at meaningful targets (ie other fliers, transports) with the Raven

[Zhukov]

And unless I'm mistaken (can't check from here and this is what I remember) the Stormraven has to go in non-flier mode the turn Mephy wants to disembark and charge. Which basicly means you just sacrificed the Stormraven. Not good.

Mostly true, though not entirely.

Nope, entirely true, read again ;)