combat squads and reserves

[The Unknown Father]

I have a couple of questions about how combat squads and reserves works in the new edition, for instance.

 

-A squad divided in two is count as 1 squad or 2 for "at least half of the army not in reserve"?

 

-i´m now able to split in two a squd whuen it comes in reserve?

 

Thanks!

[jeffersonian000]

In previous editions, Combat Squads arrived at the same time, were deloyed at the same time, could not share a transport (except for Drop Pods). In 6th, Combat Squads seem to be treated as entirely different units that can arrive separately, be deployed separately, yet share a transport. Honestly, I have no idea what GW is thinking on this.

 

SJ

[Hymirl]

You can only spilt the units on deployment, if they're in reserve you have not deployed them so can't use combat squads yet.

 

Remember the exception for riding in transports is only an exception for riding in transports. Nothing suggests its a blanket reversal of everything about units being separate.

[dswanick]

You can only spilt the units on deployment, if they're in reserve you have not deployed them so can't use combat squads yet.

 

Remember the exception for riding in transports is only an exception for riding in transports. Nothing suggests its a blanket reversal of everything about units being separate.

Hey. Welcome to 6th Edition :

"

ERRATA

Page 51 – Combat Squads.

Replace with the following wording:

“A ten-man unit with this special rule can break down into two five-man units, called combat squads.

 

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads, and which models go into each combat squad,

immediately before deployment

. A unit split into combat squads therefore

is now two separate units for all game purposes including calculating the total number of units in the army, and the number of units you can place in reserve

. Then proceed with deployment as normal. Note that two combat squads split from the same unit can embark in the same transport vehicle, providing its transport capacity allows.

 

Once you have decided whether or not to split a unit into combat squads, it must remain that way for the entire battle. It cannot split up or join back together later on in the battle, nor can you use a redeployment to split up a unit or join it back together.”

, C:SM

FAQ

[Hymirl]

dswanick. If you read the section you so thoughtfully underlined you notice it says "immediately before deployment."

 

Immediately means 'right now' not 'in a few turns time' so as i stated the FAQ does not alter the fact that you cannot split units until they are at the point of being deployed. The following part you underlined is actually irrelevant if you follow the first part as you are instructed to.

You can't follow the second and not the first because then the first would be broken.

 

Yes, another example of poor FAQ writing by GW but the rule does work only in the manner I described. Obviously house rules can read it the other way but that's not really the point at hand.

[dswanick]

Nope, because Reserves are now handled during deployment.

"

When deploying their armies

, players may choose not to deploy up to half of their units...

", BRB,

Pg

.124

So immediately before deployment the player decides to combat squad his units. From this point on they are seperate units for all purposes.

During deployment the player chooses which units will go in Reserves. Two Combat Squads will count as two units for calculating how many units may be held in Reserves, and one Combat squad could even be held in Reserves while the other Combat squad is Deployed normally.

[Red Fury]

Yup it's a big difference between 5th and 6th.

In 5th models were not deployed until the models were placed on the battlefield, either during setup or later from reserves.

In 6th there is a "deployment" when you place models on the board or into reserves.

 

So to answer the questions,

-they count as two squads.

-no, they have to be split before going into reserves.

[The Unknown Father]

thanks for the answers!

 

So:

 

-combat squads count as 2 squads for reserves (no matter if they are in reserve or normally deployed)

 

-I can split a squad in reserve but I have to say it during the deployment

[Hymirl]

Nope, because Reserves are now handled during deployment.

"

When deploying their armies

, players may choose not to deploy up to half of their units...

", BRB,

Pg

.124

 

So you quote the rule saying a player chooses NOT TO DEPLOY units and claim it says you're able to use rules that you use when deploying units on the very units you just clarified are not being deployed?

 

 

So immediately before deployment the player decides to combat squad his units. From this point on they are seperate units for all purposes.

 

Yes, and the unit is deployed later than the rest of the army, because its in reserve. So this doesn't apply.

 

Sorry, you're still wrong.

[dswanick]

Nope, because Reserves are now handled during deployment.

"

When deploying their armies

, players may choose not to deploy up to half of their units...

", BRB,

Pg

.124

 

So you quote the rule saying a player chooses NOT TO DEPLOY units and claim it says you're able to use rules that you use when deploying units on the very units you just clarified are not being deployed?

 

 

So immediately before deployment the player decides to combat squad his units. From this point on they are seperate units for all purposes.

 

Yes, and the unit is deployed later than the rest of the army, because its in reserve. So this doesn't apply.

 

Sorry, you're still wrong.

Wow, your reading comprehension :cusss.

- I add Tactical Squad Areus to my army list.

- Immediately before deployment, I decide to break it down into Demi-squad Areus and Demi-squad Baltius. Tactical Squad Areus ceases to exist and Demi-squads Areus and Baltius are completely seperate units from this point on for all rules (except that they can share a Dedicated Transport). Per the Combat Squads rules found in the C:SM Errata.

- During deployment, I choose to Embark Demi-squad Areus in its Dedicated Transport and place them in Reserves. I choose to deploy Demi-squad Baltius on an Objective in my Deployment zone. This is allowable due to the rules for Deployment and Reserves found in the BRB, Pgs.121 & 124.

What part are you having difficulties wrapping your brain around.

[Jacinda]

I think he is confusing "deployment" with coming in from reserves.

Hymirl, there is only one deployment phase and it happens before the first turn. Every model in your army is either deployed on the table or deployed in reserves.

[Morollan]

Not sure what the problem is here. Combat Squads are split before deployment. Reserves are decided during deployment. Not exactly hard to work out which happens first.

[Gentlemanloser]

While I agree 100% with DS, once again, GW uses :)-tastic language and writing. Really, they need to fire thier play testers, proof readers and editors.

 

'Deploy' is used to mean the act of physcially placing your mini's on the table, and can happen after turn 1.

 

Reserves;

 

players can choose not to deploy

 

When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it

 

So which deployment are we talking about for;

 

You must decide which units are splitting into combat squads, and which models go into each combat squad, immediately before deployment

 

The 'Deploy Forces' section prior to the start of the game? Where;

 

Armies are placed within the owning player's deployment zone.

 

Or the act of placing mini's on the table, which could be in turn 5, if coming in from reserves.

 

Nice one GW, nice...

[dswanick]

It's not really that horrible. Deployment is a specific step in the process of a game of Warhammer 40,000. It has its own section in the rule book. Yes, some units can be held in Reserve which effectively delays their deployment for a time but that doesn't alter pre-Deployment activities (such as Combat Squads) nor negate the step that is Deployment.

[Hymirl]

It's not really that horrible. Deployment is a specific step in the process of a game of Warhammer 40,000. It has its own section in the rule book. Yes, some units can be held in Reserve which effectively delays their deployment for a time but that doesn't alter pre-Deployment activities (such as Combat Squads) nor negate the step that is Deployment.

 

So you agree that a unit in reserve delays its deployment? Good, this is progress.

 

Now tell me when you do an action IMMEDIATELY before another action, if that second action is delayed... What happens to the action that is only performed immediately before it?

 

The reserve rules specifically state you do not 'deploy in reserves' because reserves is instead of.

 

Maybe put less insults in your posts and try making some sense. If you think a unit special rule about a unit deploying is about the deployment phase of the game then find some proof. Do that and I'll happily agree with you, simply ranting and raving about how right you think you are doesn't cut it.

[Calnus]

Look, you're using interpretation to add a question in Hymirl.

 

If you interpret Deployment in 6th as a seperate step (which involves declaring reserves) that is done prior to game turn 1, then it all works. Its clear (relatively) and actually a lot easier to use than the ambiguous nature of combat squadding on the drop.

 

Now, of course GW had to write out reserves using the same word "deploy" for placing models on the table from reserves, but thats not "deployment". Action vs. Step. Verb vs. Noun. Its a poor usage, but technically correct. The kind of thing a dedicated human would find but Microsoft wouldn't.

 

In cases like this where you can use an interpretation that creates more confusion, I believe you have to read the rules intending to maintain clarity. If given two options of interpretation, take the one that leaves less loose ends. It still is RAW, but also falls into the more logical RAI. Even if the simple interpretation doesn't make a lot of sense, it functions better on the table.

[pyroknight]

There are 2 "definitions" of deployment.

 

1. The Deployment step

 

and

 

2. Physically placing models on the table.

 

As some people have already pointed out, GW uses some pretty poor wording when differentiating the two. It is up to the player to use some common sense.