Emperor's Children/Betrayal

[drgabe]

I plan on playing in the Adepticon HH:Betrayal game this year (2013) and its time to get started with building an army.

 

Legion Praetor w/ combi-weapon, melta-bomb, Iron Halo, Digital Lasers, Sonic Shriekers (160 pts)

 

Apothecarian Detachment x2 w/ Augury Scanners (100 pts)

Palatine Blade Squad: all with Power Swords and Sonic Shriekers (175 its)

Contemptor Dreadnought w/ x2 Kheres Assault Cannons (205 pts)

 

Legion Tactical Squad x20, Nuncio-Vox, Legio-Vexilla (270 pts)

Legion Tactical Squad x10, Nuncio-Vox (160 pts)

Legion Tactical Support Squad: all with flamers, Melta-Bomb (105)

 

Legion Medusa w/ Twin-Linked Bolters x2 (320 pts)

 

1495 Points

44 Infantry, 1 Dread, 2 Tanks

 

For those who don't know, this is a HH:B army only list friendly "tournament" held at Adepticon this coming spring. So I'll only be playing against other Marine lists. No xenos or robot-men to battle, just brother marines!

I hope to establish plenty of torrent of fire with the bolters on the ground along with the Khere's Assault cannon (12 shots from one model, wow!). The Medusa's should be able to target tanks with the S10 barrage templates as well as take out any pesky terminators and walkers. The Palantine Squad is meant to hang back and counter assault any threats. I6 with power weapons is something that all marines should fear. The flamer squad can sit on an objective (which typically features heavy in these tournaments) and try to wait out any marine wanting to take their ground. Plus they are cheap. Of course flying will be a problem, but in this book the only flier I see that will be likely to face (and reasonably fight) is a Storm Eagle and I can only hope to glance it to death or wait it out unfortunately. However, I don't see a great response to fliers in this book that doesn't cost a fortune (points and dollars!).

 

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

[Jim AMM realgenius]

Nice! I'm signed up for the same event, playing Loyalists. I'm looking forward to it and glad see someone else from B&C is going. (Still 10 spots left, if anyone else is interested.)

 

Although I haven't tried the Palantine Blades, I've tried a similar list. It kinda falls apart if the Medusas die. I like the Contemptor, and it seems to be worth his points, but when a 20 man tac is charging a 20 man tac squad, each with apothecaries, there's a lot of stuff-not-dying that goes on.

 

The Blades might make a difference, since they'll be able to charge in and chop a bunch of guys down with their power weapons. I was using PW Veterans/Sons of Medusa in my version, but they tented to suffer a lot of Medusa/dual Heavy Bolter Land Speeder/Kheres Assault Canon fire.

 

I think, especially for this event, something like Palantine Blades, PW Veterans or whatever those Death Guard Terminators are called are going to be key to turning the tide in a 20v20 assault or shoot out. And I think Consuls will become very important, since they are force-multipliers for the 20-man squads, especially the Chaplains and Librarians.

 

I'm guessing your Praetor goes with the Palantine Blades; I might take a Librarian or Chaplain to increase the effectiveness of one of the 20-man squads and keep them as a dedicated counter unit. I don't think he'll add as much to the Blades squad as he will as a Chaplain letting them all re-roll hits or a Librarian doing the same.

[Eorek]

Out of curiosity: Where is adepticon held? (been seeing that name all over B&C since I became a member):lol:

 

And regarding the list:

 

Not using some sorta of power weapon on the Praetor? I can see him being all awesome at duels with that high initiative and 2+, but a paragon blade or even a standard power sword would help him out big time since you'll be fighting 3+ save or better(paragon blade is a real good investment... it wins you just about any challenge and increases his killyness big time... I never leave home without one!)

 

The only "weakness" in your list however is that it's quite short ranged and not that fast, if a shooty list with a player who knows what to shoot at gets the jump on you things could get messy.

 

as Jim AMM realgenius said: a librarian helping out your big unit would be a real good thing, personally I'd try and get invisibility(5 on telepathy) for em, it works wonders for squads survivability and melée potential.

 

Also regarding flyers: Can't you choose a fortification from the main rule book for your army for a heresy era list as well? that is a very cheap and reliable weapon for killing flyers(both the icarus and the quad-gun)... and the defence line wouldn't be a bad thing either for your infantry heavy list.

 

are you playing traitor or loyalist?

[Jim AMM realgenius]

Out of curiosity: Where is adepticon held? (been seeing that name all over B&C since I became a member):D

 

Chicago in April. Adepticon.org.

[Eorek]

I see, cheers

[drgabe]

@Jim- I am playing loyalist as well! It will be great to bounce some ideas off of another Battle Brother. While I get to play a fair amount of 40K games, there are few around here that want to play pure HH:B games. My thoughts are similar in that if the Medusas die early its going to be a tough comeback. I'm hoping the wargear on the tactical squads allows the Medusas to hide like crazy and still get their shots off early with full line of site! While 20 v20 combat sounds exciting, I'm hoping that won't happen. I don't thin that combat would ever fully resolve. The Palatine Blades would help, but still that is a lot of 3+ armor to go around.

 

@Jim and Eorek. Since I'm playing a more fluff orientated loyalist army for this special event, I am staying far away from Librarians despite my desire to use them. Its probably a handicap I'm going to resent but my wargaming morals are just strong enough for me to say no to that choice. A Chaplain though is a good idea. I'll have to look at the points a bit and see if one will squeeze in the list.

 

@Eorek. Great point on the Blade. I figure I can swap some of the extra war gear hanging around for one of those. That could easily help sway the battle against one of those 20-man squads we are talking about. That plus the Sonic Shrieker will give me a chance against those traitor Praetors as well!

I also agree that the list has the weaknesses that you pointed out. But at 1500 points Legion list I don't know how to fix those problems. I'm hoping that two pie plate Medusas and two Kheres Autocannons solve all of my problems! My defense on fliers is really to ignore them I think. The issue is that getting a ADL with a gun is around 100 points. Its still doesn't solve any problems, especially the big nasty fliers like a Cestus that could show up. I guess an Quad Cannon cold potentially ground a Storm Raven quickly as well as give added cover saves to a home objective camping unit. But losing the Medusa isn't something I want to do (but I might have too!).

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try to post a few different list over the next week to take some of the suggestions already mentioned into account.

[Jim AMM realgenius]

Excellent, another Loyalist! I'm lucky that there's a big HH following down here in Austin so I get lots of HH vs. HH games and almost everyone is happy to play against HH in a normal game. I still haven't tried any of the Betrayal missions. In many games, the 20x20 has been the main feature, mostly because it seems like that's what you're supposed to do when you have two big 20 man squads facing off. :)

 

I have the same problem with taking the Librarian. I started with the idea that my force would be painted as the initial Isstvan survivors from the HH novels and I don't remember any Libbys being mentioned. I think a Chaplain or even Legion Champion fits better with a Betrayal-era army, but I can't argue that the Librarians can be really effective. The DG Librarian special character almost wants me to build DG!

 

My thought on the Praetor is this: if you aren't going to use one of his Rites to change your army list, then take a cheaper HQ instead. A good alternative is the Legion Champion because he can take a Master Crafted weapon and has WS6 so you don't lose much, but get a decent discount.

 

What about changing the Praetor to a Chaplain or just a Centurion and using the points saved to convert the Flamer squad to Autocannons? That would give some longer range firepower and give you a better chance at First Blood. And it would give you something against Flyers, which would be equally good at whittling down Marine squads before the Blades assault.

[drgabe]

Jim, I don't have my book handy at the moment, perhaps you (or others) know this off of the top of your head. As I understand it I have to take the EC traits in order to take the Palantine Squad. So do I have to take a Praetor as well? If not, then that makes things more flexible in terms of points.

[Jim AMM realgenius]

You don't have to take the Praetor to get the Palantine Blades, just choose EC as your army.

 

Also, any EC IC can take a Shrieker, so you could get any of the lesser HQs.

[Eorek]

but, but, Praetors are awesome(as in rule of cool:P)

[Jim AMM realgenius]

Maybe the named characters? Tarvitz?

[drgabe]

Ok.. here is an alternative version of the list. Essentially no Praetor but replaced with two Centurion Chaplains and minus one medusa for a squad of autocannon heavy support squad. Here is the list in full:

 

Legion Centurion w/ Chaplain upgrade. Melta-bomb (90)

Legion Centurion w/ Chaplain upgrade. Melta-bomb (90)

 

Apothecarian Detachment x2, w/ Augury Scanner (100)

Palatine Blade Squad x5 (Centurion & Apothecary here); Power Swords, Sonic Shriekers, Melta Bomb (175)

Contemptor Dreadnought w/ 2 Kheres Autocannons (205)

 

Legion Tactical Squad +8 (Centurion and Apothecary here), Nuncio-Vox, Legion Vexilla (250)

Legion Tactical Squad, Nuncio-Vox (160)

Legion Tactical Support Squad w/ flamers (x5), Melta-bomb (105)

 

Legion Medusa w/ TL Bolter (160)

Legion Heavy Support Squad x5 w/ Autocannons (160)

 

1495

 

This gives me more boots on the ground, but takes a bit of the bit out of my assault character. The Palatines get better as a squad with hatred and FNP. Oddly enough, the Medusa and Heavy Support Squad are the same cost. I could potentially even make two HSS and take no tanks. That would free up the Nuncio-Vox's for a few more options. However, not having an auto kill on the table worries me.

But then I have to remind myself that its a friendly tournament. If I get tabled by aircraft and tanks, its a quicker exit to the bar!

 

I considered Tarvitz at first. He is costed between the expensive Praetors and the more reasonable Centurions. But no power weapon attack, though he does have rending. Refractor field instead of Iron Halo. I'd almost rather have a Praetor and then model him after Tarvitz (some cool art in the Art of HH books and the old Sabertooth card game).

[Jim AMM realgenius]

I like it, but I echo your worry about flyers. Now that I think about it, I'm sure everyone is going to have a Caestus or Stormbird.

 

I like the dual Chaplains, even better if you didn't do them in black, but made them extra gold (as I can only imagine a EC Chaplain would be extra shiny. :D )

[Eorek]

I like it, but I echo your worry about flyers. Now that I think about it, I'm sure everyone is going to have a Caestus or Stormbird.

 

Aegis defence line!

[Elazar The Glorified]

Your Apothecaries can't join Palatine Blade squads. You'd need a Primus Medicae in the squad to give them FNP.

I'd try and wrangle the points for Sonic Shriekers on the Chaplains. Eventually they're like to wind up in a challenge with the Emperor's Children special rules and woynd allocation in an extra Initiative step is worth the 5pts even if they avoid any challenges.

[drgabe]

Aegis defence line!

 

I like the ADL, but I'm less hung-ho on the weapons. Without breaking down the Math-hammer, I just don't trust my dice rolling for either the Lascannon or the Quad-gun to really take out a flier. I guess its possible, just not likely or worth the points.

But, if I did choose one, where would I find the points? The Chaplain?

 

 

Your Apothecaries can't join Palatine Blade squads. You'd need a Primus Medicae in the squad to give them FNP.

I'd try and wrangle the points for Sonic Shriekers on the Chaplains. Eventually they're like to wind up in a challenge with the Emperor's Children special rules and woynd allocation in an extra Initiative step is worth the 5pts even if they avoid any challenges.

Help me out here on the Apothecaries. Why can't they join the Palatines?

Good point with the Shriekers. I can likely squeeze 10 points from the army.

[Elazar The Glorified]

Pg 198 gives a list of squads you have to attach Apothecaries to and Palatines aren't there and I'm not aware of there being anything anywhere that changes that. Would love for it to be so! That and for apothecaries to be able to take jump packs etc like the command squads you attach them to :rolleyes: