The Dark King

[Skaltak]

Ive just read the short story 'The Dark King'. The opening sceen is Curze squatting on Dorn's body after he takes a chunk out of him (good boy Curze :D ). Was this attack due to him having a vision? Im sure ive seen it somewhere before but cant find it now.

 

This brings me to my next question. Curze kills both Dorn's men and Fulgrim's men. Fulgrim is seen as being a good guy at this point so im not sure where in the timeline it is. Does this make Curze the 1st to kill a brother marine and become the 1st traitor?

[Chaplain ChonkE]

It is not too long before the Heresy starts in earnest and in the open. Lorgar and his crew are well on the path at this point and I think Horus might have already been to Davin (speculation) and been reborn. Curze is definitely not the first traitor, as Lorgar is the First Heretic after all. As to the Marine thing, I have not a clue. I would think some Marines would have killed each other prior to this, just not in the hot blood of heresy; more like honor duels and participants in World Eaters sparring exercises, err fights to the death.

[Grimdarkness]

Curze told fulgrim about his vision of the future fulgrim told dorn. Dorn took it as an insult to the emperor and had words with curze.

[Eorek]

if I'm not mistaken Magnus the red killed some space wolves in that join spacewolves+ 1k sons + word bearers campaign in the book "A thousand sons"

And that was well before horus fall.

 

Regarding first killing another marine I believe that in "prospero burns" russ mentions the wolves being let loose on other astartes before(possibly one of the two unknown primarchs? I mean, Chances are there was a primarch who rejected the emperor right?)

Although this would not make Russ a traitor.

 

Though Personally I would call the nightlords... Going renegade rather than betraying the imperium... sure they choose Horus side later on, but they hardly acted upon the notion of betrayal... Of course this is a matter of perspective. So yes, they were the first legion who officially turned on the imperium.

 

well that's my take anyways

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

your wrong about the first line

 

see what happened was one of the thousand sons had a flesh-change and russ saw it and destroyed it and thats how nikea started

[Kol Saresk]

This story is basically the attempted sanction mentioned in the Night Lords fluff. It was more or less that Curze was in one of his bipolar moods(maybe this is why I relate to him) and Dorn just happened to say the wrong thing at the right time and it resulted in Curze attacking him. After this story when Curze breaks out and everything, we see the Night Lords go to Nostramo and bombard it into oblivion, literally. And then they are being ordered into part of the sanction force which turned into them going Traitor with the Iron Warriors, Alpha Legion and Word Bearers.

[Brother Nihm]

826.M29

 

The Pacification of the Cheraut system. During a banquet honoring the pacification of the Cheraut system, Lord Princeps Ichabod Lethrai tells the tale of a conflict between the primarchs Konrad Curze and Rogal Dorn. Curze confides in Fulgrim, telling him of a vision in which the Emperor kills him and his brothers. Fulgrim in turn informs Rogal Dorn about Konrad's vision. Konrad Curze is confronted by Rogal Dorn who takes slight to the Emperor's name. After a brutal encounter, where Rogal Dorn is savagely wounded, Curze is exiled to his chambers while the council of Primarchs debate. While he's in his chambers, an Imperial assassin makes an attempt on Curze's life. Soon after, Konrad Curze makes a violent escape rather than face responsibility for his actions. Konrad takes his fleet to Nostramo and destroys the planet, this is the first step in a campaign of terror whence Curze eventually renounces the Emperor. The Emperor recalls Night Haunter to Earth to answer the charges, but the quest to bring the Night Haunter to justice is abandoned as the Horus Heresy unfolds.

 

 

WD #260; Index Astartes II, Lord of the Night

[daveNYC]

if I'm not mistaken Magnus the red killed some space wolves in that join spacewolves+ 1k sons + word bearers campaign in the book "A thousand sons"

And that was well before horus fall.

 

They nuked some wolves (the four legged kind) and used their powers on some Space Wolves, but didn't actually kill any.

[[TA]Typher]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

[Kol Saresk]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

It depends on which one of the three fights you are talking about. The first one can be argued that it could have gone Curze's way until Corswain did his Brad Pitt jump and planted a sword into his back. The second one, did go the Lion's way. The third one, we don't know how the third one went, just that both Primarchs survived.

 

Also, the two events are unrelated. Dorn approached Curze as a brother who he thought had insulted their father. Curze and the Lion approached each other as enemies and there have been too many variables in each fight(Corswain, the Portal Dude, etc) for them to be used to say which Primarch is better.

[Brother Ambroz]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

 

You sure about that?

[[TA]Typher]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

 

You sure about that?

 

Yup. Read the prince of crows.

 

Or just my spoiler.

 

 

It seems that stunt he pulled on the Dorn and later on the Lion would be his end. Unlike Dorn the Lion suffered no lingering fear of the Lord of Night, and actively hunted him to prove who was the better Primarch. In a battle in which the Lion didn't hold back, like their first confrontation, The Lion cuts Kurzes throat from ear to ear and almost kills him, forcing his body to go into a coma. He is saved by his men, who fear he is dead. The Lion then shatters the Night Lord legion by killing a good chunk of it including The Night Haunters flagship. When Kurze finally revives much later, his legion has been beaten and he flees from the Lion. .

 

[Brother Ambroz]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

 

You sure about that?

 

Yup. Read the prince of crows.

 

Or just my spoiler.

 

 

The Lion cuts Curzes throat from ear to ear and almost kills him, forcing his body to go into a coma. He is saved by his men, who fear he is dead. The Lion then shatters the Night Lord legion by kiing a good chunk of it including The Night Haunters flagship. When Kurze finally revives much later, his legion has been beaten and he flees from the Lion.

 

 

That's one, try reading the others that Kol mentioned instead of citing one occaision.

 

Edit: Such as Dark King, forgot the name of it. The Lion didn't shatter the NL legion, that was done when Kurze allowed himself to die. Where does it say Dorn feared Kurze? I don't think any of the Primarchs actually felt fear. This is getting OT though and I don't want this to turn into another "my primarch is better than yours" so I'm done.

[[TA]Typher]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

 

You sure about that?

 

Yup. Read the prince of crows.

 

Or just my spoiler.

 

 

The Lion cuts Curzes throat from ear to ear and almost kills him, forcing his body to go into a coma. He is saved by his men, who fear he is dead. The Lion then shatters the Night Lord legion by kiing a good chunk of it including The Night Haunters flagship. When Kurze finally revives much later, his legion has been beaten and he flees from the Lion.

 

 

That's one, try reading the others that Kol mentioned instead of citing one occaision.

Edit: Such as Dark King, forgot the name of it.

 

Sorry I edited my post while you were replying.

 

The book you are talking about was "Savage Weapons", which happened BEFORE the Prince of Crows. If has been said that the first was far from over before the two parted and it's not a clear victory for either Primarch.

 

Although the Lion held back in that book, he learned his lesson and paid Kruse back in spades.

 

Re-read my spoiler.

[[TA]Typher]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

It depends on which one of the three fights you are talking about. The first one can be argued that it could have gone Curze's way until Corswain did his Brad Pitt jump and planted a sword into his back. The second one, did go the Lion's way. The third one, we don't know how the third one went, just that both Primarchs survived.

 

Also, the two events are unrelated. Dorn approached Curze as a brother who he thought had insulted their father. Curze and the Lion approached each other as enemies and there have been too many variables in each fight(Corswain, the Portal Dude, etc) for them to be used to say which Primarch is better.

 

I only know of two battles between the two. The first, even though they were enemies I didn't get the impression that the Lion wanted Kurse dead. Much like his confrontation with Russ they came to blows but killing was not the goal of the Lion. He learned his lesson though, and the second meeting of the two turned out much, much different.

 

Sadly, if the Lion was more personable he could have read Kurze better and ended him the first time.

[[TA]Typher]

That's one, try reading the others that Kol mentioned instead of citing one occaision.

 

Edit: Such as Dark King, forgot the name of it. The Lion didn't shatter the NL legion, that was done when Kurze allowed himself to die. Where does it say Dorn feared Kurze? I don't think any of the Primarchs actually felt fear. This is getting OT though and I don't want this to turn into another "my primarch is better than yours" so I'm done.

 

If you read the lightning tower Dorn talks about the dreams he has of the Night Haunter attacking him and shivers at the thought. He mentions it again in another book, the Crimson fist?

 

In the prince of Crows They state that the Dark Angels destroyed a full third of the Night Lords Legion, causing them to break apart and spread out.

 

As for some Primarchs are better then others? Sadly, that's just a fact. Read Fulgrim and see how dull and boorish Ferris is. He literally does nothing that shows he is a super intelligent being. Deliverance Lost is another example of uneven, unequal Primarchs. Alpharius easily out paces a Corax, who flip flops from being a genius in a small part of the book to a window licking moron in rest of it.

 

I'm not saying that the Night Haunter isn't brilliant and powerful, I'm just saying that skill and mental abilities just differ and work in certain Primarchs favor. I think the Lord of Night has been shown in a very good light compared to some ot some of the other Primarchs.

 

I just wish Black Library would be most consistent in showing all Primarchs as the Genius, super beings they are suppose to be.

[Kol Saresk]

Curze tried this on the Lion too. It didn't work out so well for him.

It depends on which one of the three fights you are talking about. The first one can be argued that it could have gone Curze's way until Corswain did his Brad Pitt jump and planted a sword into his back. The second one, did go the Lion's way. The third one, we don't know how the third one went, just that both Primarchs survived.

 

Also, the two events are unrelated. Dorn approached Curze as a brother who he thought had insulted their father. Curze and the Lion approached each other as enemies and there have been too many variables in each fight(Corswain, the Portal Dude, etc) for them to be used to say which Primarch is better.

 

I only know of two battles between the two. The first, even though they were enemies I didn't get the impression that the Lion wanted Kurse dead. Much like his confrontation with Russ they came to blows but killing was not the goal of the Lion. He learned his lesson though, and the second meeting of the two turned out much, much different.

 

Sadly, if the Lion was more personable he could have read Kurze better and ended him the first time.

There's the one in Savage Weapons. The one described in Prince of Crows that takes place before it but after The Lion and then the one that Sevatar sees at the end of Prince of Crows but he passes out before any useful information is given and the outcome has not been published yet.

[Brother Ambroz]

As for some Primarchs are better then others? Sadly, that's just a fact. Read Fulgrim and see how dull and boorish Ferris is. He literally does nothing that shows he is a super intelligent being. Deliverance Lost is another example of uneven, unequal Primarchs. Alpharius easily out paces a Corax, who flip flops from being a genius in a small part of the book to a window licking moron in rest of it.

 

I'm not saying that the Night Haunter isn't brilliant and powerful, I'm just saying that skill and mental abilities just differ and work in certain Primarchs favor. I think the Lord of Night has been shown in a very good light compared to some ot some of the other Primarchs.

 

I just wish Black Library would be most consistent in showing all Primarchs as the Genius, super beings they are suppose to be.

 

It's just most "my primarch is better" posts turn into flame wars and nobody wins. That's why I'm not going to comment on those....

 

But yeah I know what you mean. Unfortunately that's the literary route most of the authors take in the black library books. From whichever POV the book is written is whoever looks smarter and "better". As ADB or someone put it though, none of the Primarchs are especially better than the other. It just depends on the situation.

[Brother Nihm]

Where does it say Dorn feared Kurze? I don't think any of the Primarchs actually felt fear. This is getting OT though and I don't want this to turn into another "my primarch is better than yours" so I'm done.

The Lightning Tower. And it is perfectly understandable too because at the time.

 

I won't spoil it but give it a read, it is solid work and it doesn't diminish Dorn in my mind, quite the opposite - because what would it take to make a Primarch truly feel fear?

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Dorn seems to fear many things. Not saying he is a fraidy-cat (He is my chapters Genefather after all) but it seems like of all the Primarchs he is the most... fearful. Nagasena of Outcast Dead remarks on this and wonders what Dorn is afraid of (other than the Bat). I am curious as well!

 

Dorn certainly fears failure but he is closest to the Throne during the Heresy so the worries of the entire Imperium are carried by him as well. It is very compelling.

[Wade Garrett]

Much like his confrontation with Russ they came to blows but killing was not the goal of the Lion. He learned his lesson though and second meeting of the two turned out much, much different.

 

Sadly, if the Lion was more personable he could have read Kurze better and ended him the first time.

 

You've never read "Savage Weapons" have you? Lion was the one who struck first, stabbing Curze through the chest and telling him "Loyalty is it's own reward." As for not wanting to kill, I refer you to the previous sentence where he jammed a sword hilt deep into his torso. Bloody Angels...Iron Warriors don't gripe about Perturabo getting outgeneraled in Crimson Fist, Ultramarines finally quieted down about Kor Phereon spellblasting their Primarch, Word Bearers are silent over Corax gutting Lorgar, but Dark Angels? Emperor forbid any opponent muss one strand of Lion El Johnson's coiffure.

[Deathwatch/Grey knight]

ive read savage weapons

 

so does this mean prince of crows, the lightning tower and the dark king

 

are the lion and night haunter conflicts

[Brother Nihm]

The Dark King only covers Curze and Dorn, not Lion El Johnson.

The Lightning Tower covers Dorn mostly, with references to Curze.

 

You'll be after Savage Weapons and The Prince of Crows for the Lion - Curze conflicts.

[Lord Falkor]

I belive Magnus was the First Traitor as he delt with Tzeentch to stop his legion becoming warp spawn before all the primarchs met back up on terra/earth.

 

Now i know he didnt realise it was a chaos god and he was being a heretic but he didnt let it become known to anyone else how he solved the problem as i dont think the BIG E would have allowed his legion to continue if he knew about what magnus did.

[Chaplain ChonkE]

Good point Falkor! Still, it isnt like Magnus was sending his sons into the Eye of Terror and having them turn off Gellar fields to learn the truth or inhibiting and killing Custodes. While that deal might have been leverage, Magnus didnt make the choice until Russ pulled a Bane on him. It was more like a major temptation/compulsions than outright traitorous heresy; good intentions and no full crossing of the line. Lorgar was pretty much all in from the moment he turned away from the Emperor. It was his nature.