Balthamal Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Bit of a random question but I can't seem to find any concrete answers one way or the other. In short, when did the Deathwing repaint their armour from black to bone white? Or even was it green to bone white? From the various bits of fluff doing the rounds it was all in response to genestealers but if thats the case that means mid M41 at the earliest. Does anyone have any other info they could share? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaika87 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 The origins of Deathwing being painted bone color comes from a bit of Rogue Trader fluff (back when Space Marines lived to be a ripe old age of 80 and there was a half-Eldar Librarian). It's a short story that's actually a surprisingly decent read if you can track it down somewhere. This also came from the time when Dark Angels were Native Americans in Space the way Space Wolves are Vikings. 30 Terminators of the Deathwing (who I believe got their name from their Thunderhawk, that part is unclear) arrive back on their recruiting world to find it overrun by a genestealer cult. They make the difficult decision to spend their lives trying to win the world back rather than condemn the planet to Exterminatus (also condemning the chapter to a slow death unless it could find a new recruiting world). They did not expect to survive the battle, and so in the traditions of the planet, they performed their last rites, which included painting the body bone white. The Dark Angels painted their armor bone white instead, and they were able to succesfully exterminate the cult and rescue a good chunk of the population, although only 4 were left alive. They remained as chiefs of the various tribes, and when other elements of the company arrived, the surviving Deathwing asked them to keep the suits white in honor of the sacrifices made to reclaim their home, while the marines themselves remained behind to restore their culture to their home planet. This is the original fluff, at any rate. There are tons of nuances that make trying to update it for current fluff while retaining the event's significance a problem, so I understand that updated versions are a bit more vague. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3259780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Genestealers have been around for quite a few millenia, long before the existance of Tyranids was even known. And one theory has it that the Ymgarl Genestealers (pretty much the only variety known for quite some time, it seems) originated from the Tiamet system, which was discovered in M35 and shares a lot of traits with tyranid organisms. As for when it happened, I'm thinking at somewhere in M36 due to the following: Cloud Runner (captain Ezekiel) is known to have participated in the crushing of the Thranx rebellion, which ended with the plantet's exterminatus due to deeply rooted genestealer infestation. The Thranx rebellion is said to have happened in M36 according to Index Astares III (Battle of Thranx short story). And that mission happened some 120 years before the Plains World incident. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3259809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [...] they performed their last rites, which included painting the body bone white. The Dark Angels painted their armor bone white instead, [...] Technically, if memory serves, they covered their black armour plate in the whitish clay/soil of their region of their homeworld – rather than any real painting. In that respect I see these brothers as looking pretty intimidating in their hand-applied ritualistc clay daubs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3259865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Like said above it came from the story Deathwing. They marked their armor white somehow from the planets, tribes, peoples, tradition of the ones going to die in war painting their bodies white with something. they were Fighting off a Genestealer infestation. As to when exactly I don't recall but in the fluff genestealers were first thought a species of Ymgarl (planet system moon... I think it was a moon.) until they found that genestealers were the first arriving of a Tyranid attack force getting a set point for them to zoom in on by the genestealer leader psychically being a beacon. Then they started stating them as being Tyranid. Fluffwise. But like said above Cloudrunner was Ezekiel I do believe. So it would be somewhere during his time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3259912 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 [...] they performed their last rites, which included painting the body bone white. The Dark Angels painted their armor bone white instead, [...] Technically, if memory serves, they covered their black armour plate in the whitish clay/soil of their region of their homeworld – rather than any real painting. In that respect I see these brothers as looking pretty intimidating in their hand-applied ritualistc clay daubs. Well, it could be ashes. The Aghori sect of hinduism has its followers ritually doubt themselves in ashes to become closer to their god Shiva, and they look pretty darn white afterwards. But like said above Cloudrunner was Ezekiel I do believe. So it would be somewhere during his time. A different Ezekiel than our current Keeper of the Book of Salvation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleqvin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yes. Not our keeper of the Book. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As I recall the story Deathwing says they used white ash to recolour their armour. One of the funeral rites on their world was to dress the body in white. They were fighting for their people rather than their chapter and wanted to die as plains people. They didn't expect anyone to be around to do that, hence they did it in advance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Squidar Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 on a another related note, does the whole death wing now follow this tradition, or would it be possible to find traditionalists within the inner circle who still use the old legion colours? another question quick. Say one of the deathwing became a dreadnought before the plainsworld incident, and is still going now, would he have his machine painted white in honour of the plains worlds squad, or be stuck in his ways of legion colours? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 From what I recall, only those 30 terminator suits were repainted as white, the rest would've remained in legion colours. Not that GW keeps to that fluff, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
facmanpob Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'm sure there was a discussion a while back about whether or not the Deathwing short story was a "real" 40K event, or just an allegorical tale told as part of the DA initiation process. I think the crux of the discussion was that the DA canon has changed so much in the 20 years since Deathwing was first published, that it didn't fit in with the current milieu. Can't recall the outcome of the discussion though ... :) Awesome short story though, as is the rest of the anthology! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260394 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think the outcome is what goes for all old pieces of fluff; unless there's more recent fluff indicating the opposite or otherwise discrediting it, its official. And Index Astartes provided a rough timing of when it would've happened (119.M37 at the latest). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you're into e-books you can find it here. Deathwing is the short story you're looking for and it's in the short story collection titled Deathwing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you're into e-books you can find it here. Deathwing is the short story you're looking for and it's in the short story collection titled Deathwing. Yeah... it'd be nice to know what filetype it uses. Those ebooks on GW.com are all iSmeg ones, ergo, something I'll never use. Anyhow, I still prefer dead-tree format. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you're into e-books you can find it here. Deathwing is the short story you're looking for and it's in the short story collection titled Deathwing. Yeah... it'd be nice to know what filetype it uses. Those ebooks on GW.com are all iSmeg ones, ergo, something I'll never use. Anyhow, I still prefer dead-tree format. I believe it's .epub and .mobi I have a question, is the "Deathwing" story in the anthology (with the same name) the same story that was a stand alone that went with old school Space Hulk expansion (also of the same name, lol)? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3260618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have a question, is the "Deathwing" story in the anthology (with the same name) the same story that was a stand alone that went with old school Space Hulk expansion (also of the same name, lol)? Yes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3261018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacca Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Yes and no. They are pretty much the same, the only difference is the new story takes the latest fluff into account. Where in the original (published in the 80s if my memories right) took this as there only home world the later book takes it as just a reuruiting world. It's a very good read either way. As to when, there isn't a definitive date for it. Around M35-M38 is as good as we'll get I think. As to colour before and do all DW wear it. As it was after the split ( which the broken sword represents) I believe all DA would be green (apart from DW and raven wing who kept their armour black in honour of there past?) All DW would have painted their armour bone white after the incident. Remember these are stories that would be told to re enforce the belief of self sacrifice. I also think, as the only chapter to have in excess of 100 terminator suits there would be a good proportion of Tartaros and Cataphractii pattern suits amongst the longer serving members. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3470238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I think the outcome is what goes for all old pieces of fluff; unless there's more recent fluff indicating the opposite or otherwise discrediting it, its official. And Index Astartes provided a rough timing of when it would've happened (119.M37 at the latest). It's official, in that it is told as a Chapter legend. Legend, as in not able to be verified for veracity. So it might be true, it might not be. It is definitely a story told in the Chapter though, and possibly among all Unforgiven. Whether it is a true story or not is left up to you, the reader, based on the latest Codex (and the previous one). Now, if you feel it to be true and want to hold to the story, then only about 30 or so suits would have been re-colored, and they would be ash white (grayish white), leaving the rest black (or if the remaining 70ish+ followed suit, all that color). If you want the story to be a little deeper tale having something to do with the Lutherite rebellion and the Fallen or to just match the GW paint scheme, then use the all DW are bone colored. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3470365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onisuzume Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Which wasn't official at the time I wrote that comment due to not having the new codex yet. Also, its non-issue for me since I use heresy-era colours. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3470532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magos Valkamar Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Just before the story in The Book of the Lion anthology there's a couple of paragraphs, the second one reads: What follows is just one of the legends of the Deathwing, the First Company of the Dark Angels Chapter. Like all legends, it changes with the telling, so that every one who hears it and retells it perpetuates the process of change. Who can now say what the truth of the matter ever was? I like to think that means we can interpret the Deathwing tale however you want. Personally, I think Deathwing is a great story, but actually has very little to do with the actual Dark Angels themselves (apart from the bone white armour, of course). Also, there's the slight paradox of the Angels of Absolution and Redemption have the same colour armour as the Deathwing... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267640-deathwing-bone-armour/#findComment-3470689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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