Are people still using Rhinos?

[Ragnars Claw]

I'm keen to try out a list with 4 rhinos with grey hunters in (plus some other bits and bobs). Is anyone else still using rhinos or have they gone the way of the dodo now with the really harsh transport rules?

[dswanick]

My standard list consists of 2-3 Rhinos and 1-2 Razorbacks in 1,250 to 1,850pt games.

[Russ Brother 92]

they can deffinately still be used - the main break is that they are now more liable to small weapons fire (bolters/heavy bolters etc.) and you can't just sit inside them on an objective - so no I don't think they're the new dodo, instead it means people have to actually think about what they do with their transports, weigh up the advantages/disadvantages of taking them and primarily what they may be up against - I know a lot of people who run them because people don't think they will, so don't take much anti-vehicle stuff, maybe 1-2 LCs and a few MLs at tops, no more melta and unless you know you're facing marines (where they go plasma heavy) then very little other than things like heavy bolters, splinter cannons etc. which are 'normal' infantry shredders...

[Wulfebane]

I've found drop pods with a 6" deployment more enticing.

[dswanick]

Rhinos have not become outdated or useless. Their role has changed, or changed back in this case. The Rhino Rush has been reinvigorated by the current rules. Because a Rhino is now both more fragile (3 glances and wrecked) and more resilient (1-2 glances have no chance of stun-locking one) they have become what an APC should be - inexpensive, ubiquitous, and temporary transportation for a foot unit.

 

Space Wolves are especially suited to this new role for Rhinos. As units can no longer disembark from a Rhino and Assault the same turn, C:SM units in Rhinos are more limited in their ability to use them. Space Wolves, however, have an Ace-in-the-Hole in the form of Counter-attack. Driving up, disembarking, Rapid-firing, and then receiving the charge was a pretty standard tactic for Wolves before and does not suffer under then new rules.

Meanwhile the ability to Move 12", move Flat Out 6" to take Cover or pop Smoke, then on the next turn Move 6", then the unit Disembarks 6" gives our Grey Hunters a huge ability to get into position at mid-field objectives where they do their best work.

[Daddywarcrimes]

I'm having a good amount of success with a mix of Rhinos and Drop Pods, rushing the Rhinos 18" the first turn, while the pods of Dreads and Wolf Guard arrive to either block firelines or engage stuff that might pop my Rhinos. The only problem I'm having is catching the things that squirt out of the pocket I'm trying to crush my opponent into. I'm actually looking at putting Land Speeders back into my army to hunt down things like Venoms and Crisis Suits and Jetbikes, ad dropping down to just one pack of Long Fangs.

[Ragnars Claw]

The mental block I have with Rhinos is that if they get stunned then the squad inside is stunned too, even if they disembark next turn. That just seems incredibly harsh to me :unsure:

[Blackmane]

I use 2-4 rhinos, 1-2 razorbacks and 1-3 drop pods all the time. I don't care what people say; I don't believe in pure footslugger armies....

That said I think pods iz da bomb in 6th and I'm considering more of them

 

-Martin

[dswanick]

The mental block I have with Rhinos is that if they get stunned then the squad inside is stunned too, even if they disembark next turn. That just seems incredibly harsh to me :D

Well, that's debatable - although I can't find the thread where this was debated a.t.m. But the long and short of it is that there is an argument to be made that "passengers can't shoot in their next shooting phase" and disembarked units aren't 'passengers'.

[guinness drinking dwarf]

I still run rhinos in my lists although Ive found it an all or nothing deal. Too few and with consentrated fire, you troops will be foot slogging form your turn 1 or 2.

[greysquigg]

I've been running footslogging and mech in this edition.

 

So far, footslogging has come up trumps.. most of the time.

 

Generally, I'll add rhino's/razorbacks if I can't fill 80 or so point's at the end. Or if I'm running the LRR.

Otherwise, I'll add on WG pack leaders for a foot slogging army.

 

Footslogging just works better with certain choices in my opinion. If you're starting 24" away from each other (generally) you can move the grey hunters their full movement and by turn two, you're in melta range. I won't even mention the run movement which you will undoubtedly use turn 1.

 

If you take into account outflanking, it just makes sense to have that turn of "dancing" with each other before your outflanking units come in and makes your opponent go "what?". Thus potentially wasting those turns of counter movement.

 

 

But, if you are running TWC, then you pretty much want them to be hiding behind your raider/rhino otherwise they aren't such a sure thing.

 

 

 

I would say, tailor your list to your special units.

If you are running 3 squads of long fangs or any other stationary/slowmiving unit (like 10 TDAWG): footslog.

If you are running TWC/Landspeeders/vindicators: use mech.

 

 

 

GS

[Brom MKIV]

I dont currently use rhinos but my opponents do, and yes they are still effective, especially fast rhinos. Moving 24" is worth the cost of 2 marines not to mention the added protection. Another aspect that people (at least I did) initially overlook is the changes to the damage chart + hull pts means rhinos now often become LoS blocking difficult terrain instead of craters. In my experience this has been very annoying (or beneficial when I do it) allowing properly placed rhinos to become effective barricades of wreckage.

[Mr.darkness]

Coming From mainly a necron player, I am finding that the rhinos my opponents use are just dying very easily. It used to be that I found it hard to get rid of them without scarabs, or proper anti tank weapons (s8+, ap1) to actually kill them, but now my Anni barges, night scythes, gauss, scarabs, and basically everything is just wrecking them. I feel that pods would be better, since you can get fit into my face before I can shoot you, or footslogging, as with each rhino you get rid of, you can get 2 extra.

Another option is to try taking only 1-2 rhinos, and try hiding them better. I think some people are still stuck in the mindset of just leaving their transports in the open, where they are easy prey, especially I the new 5+ cover. With 1-2, you can probably get them behind blos terrain, and in the first turn get your guys into midfield.

[dswanick]

Coming From mainly a necron player, I am finding that the rhinos my opponents use are just dying very easily. It used to be that I found it hard to get rid of them without scarabs, or proper anti tank weapons (s8+, ap1) to actually kill them, but now my Anni barges, night scythes, gauss, scarabs, and basically everything is just wrecking them. I feel that pods would be better, since you can get fit into my face before I can shoot you, or footslogging, as with each rhino you get rid of, you can get 2 extra.

Another option is to try taking only 1-2 rhinos, and try hiding them better. I think some people are still stuck in the mindset of just leaving their transports in the open, where they are easy prey, especially I the new 5+ cover. With 1-2, you can probably get them behind blos terrain, and in the first turn get your guys into midfield.

Well, that's the difference between general advice geared towards the vast majority of armies in the game and advice specificlly directed against the one army in the game which can Glance any vehicle with their basic weapons. ;)

[Brom MKIV]

Coming From mainly a necron player, I am finding that the rhinos my opponents use are just dying very easily.

Ya if every opponent were crons then this would be a serious consideration. Against most other armies though and especially foot slogging armies rhinos are fine.

[MalachiOfRuss]

Meanwhile the ability to Move 12", move Flat Out 6" to take Cover or pop Smoke...

Note that you can move Flat Out or Pop Smoke but not both. I'm pretty sure that's what you meant, but I wanted to make sure people knew that.

 

 

Well, that's debatable - although I can't find the thread where this was debated a.t.m. But the long and short of it is that there is an argument to be made that "passengers can't shoot in their next shooting phase" and disembarked units aren't 'passengers'.

Seriously? :) I think the FAQ is pretty clear - that's just rules lawyer-ing at its worst. It's all one sentence and the sentence starts with "If passengers disembark... they..." Yes, they suffer the Stunned and Shaken effects.

 

Even so, Rhinos are still useful - they get you around the battlefield faster, protect units from small arms fire, and serve to block enemy movement and line of site. Rhinos are especially useful if you're facing Daemons or any other DS'ing alpha strike army. I find it mind-boggling and frustrating that the same self-appointed "expert" players are saying rhinos are "useless" and then saying that Flamers of Tzeetch are "broken." If you're in your Rhinos what are Flamers going to do, kill 3 Rhinos? Who cares?

[dswanick]

Well, that's debatable - although I can't find the thread where this was debated a.t.m. But the long and short of it is that there is an argument to be made that "passengers can't shoot in their next shooting phase" and disembarked units aren't 'passengers'.

Seriously? :) I think the FAQ is pretty clear

I'm glad they cleared that one up with an FAQ.

[Evilmerlin]

My main issue with Rhinos is that my opponents view them as easy First Blood points. Yes, you can try to protect them with cover saves and what no but it still doesn't diminish the fact they go down easy.

[Ragnars Claw]

Well I tried 4 rhinos out the other day against a tough but balanced Blood Angel list.

 

I lost (badly!) but that wasn't due to the presence of rhinos in the list, more due to tactical mistakes on my part. One thing that did crop up was yet another daft FAQ answer about not being able to assult if your rhino gets wrecked in your opponents turn. That and the stunned/shaken transfering to guys who disembark is stupid imo. But thems the rules.

 

I think rhinos do have a place, certainly in the list i'm looking for which is balanced and will give another balanced list a good game. I'm not interested in playing dweebs who just spam all the uber units.

[Jarl Deathwolf]

I abandoned the rhinos with the new edition, though this was equal parts wanting to fight as Russ intended and rhinos begcoming frailer.

 

Here is my normal pack in 5th edition:

 

8 Grey Hunters

1 Meltagun, 1 Wolf Standard, 1 Mark of the Wulfen

Rhino

+1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader with Combi Melta and Power Fist

 

Here is my normal pack in 6th edition:

 

10 Grey Hunters

2 Plasma guns, 1 Wolf Standard, 1 Mark of the Wulfen

+1 Wolf Guard Pack Leader in TDA with Power Fist and Wolf Claw

 

 

 

Same exact cost. More models. Tougher in cc. The draw back is that I'm slower and need to hug cover more, and am kinda frailer when being shot at. Still, I like the fact that I have more freedom with my pack size and the extra special weapon has saved me a bunch of times already. I prefer this method of fighting, but I miss being right up in my enemy's face.

 

In ends up depending on what suits your tactics more.

[Grimtooth]

Rhinos have not become outdated or useless. Their role has changed, or changed back in this case. The Rhino Rush has been reinvigorated by the current rules. Because a Rhino is now both more fragile (3 glances and wrecked) and more resilient (1-2 glances have no chance of stun-locking one) they have become what an APC should be - inexpensive, ubiquitous, and temporary transportation for a foot unit.

 

Space Wolves are especially suited to this new role for Rhinos. As units can no longer disembark from a Rhino and Assault the same turn, C:SM units in Rhinos are more limited in their ability to use them. Space Wolves, however, have an Ace-in-the-Hole in the form of Counter-attack. Driving up, disembarking, Rapid-firing, and then receiving the charge was a pretty standard tactic for Wolves before and does not suffer under then new rules.

Meanwhile the ability to Move 12", move Flat Out 6" to take Cover or pop Smoke, then on the next turn Move 6", then the unit Disembarks 6" gives our Grey Hunters a huge ability to get into position at mid-field objectives where they do their best work.

 

It does not suffer and in fact gets a little better with the addition of Overwatch.

[eyeslikethunder]

I find them still effective and the selection of ap3 flamers chaos seem to have only strengthens their use in lists

[Russ Brother 92]

I find them still effective and the selection of ap3 flamers chaos seem to have only strengthens their use in lists

 

I know it's slightly OT but AP3 flamers?!? explain please :huh: (I don't have nor have I read the new C:CSM)

[Daddywarcrimes]

Noise Marine Doom Sirens are S5 AP3 flamers. Only the squad champions can take them, which makes it hard to really spam them, but that's life.

[spacewolf407]

I mainly footslog nowadays.