CSM Squad Help

[NovaScotius]

Hi All,

 

I’ve just started myself an Iron Warriors army, and I’m a little stuck with how to build my CSM squads. I’ve contemplated doing something along the lines of:

 

Aspiring Champion with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword & Bolt Pistol

9 CSM with Bolter, Bolt Pistol & CCW

2 Plasma Guns

10 VotLW

=223 points

 

Now, looking at this, it’s quite a points investment, and I don’t see anyone else using Combi weapons on their Squad Leaders; is there a reason for this? As they’re not sacrificing an attack for it, having an extra plasma gun for a turn sounds pretty good (Getting Hot aside!).

 

Really, I’m just after some pointers on how best to equip unmarked CSM squads, and whether the one above is good, or bloated.

 

Thanks!

[steve shields]

If i have the points i usually will put a combi plasma in there, but it seems like it usually doesnt work out that way.are you planning on having these guys be shooty or a mix of shooty and stabby? cause i try to avoid PW on my shooty champs. and dropping the ccw would save points too. That might just be me though, i don't really like mixed squads i like them good at one thing usually.

[Brother Ambroz]

Some people like their squads diverse and some people like their squads dedicated to a single thing. If you wind up taking ubergrit and plasma then you've got to realize you're spending alot of points on those. Thus you'll have to be very careful with your units.

[Moress]

Its all preference. I personally like to take the squad you have above except with an axe on the champ and stuff them all in a rhino. It lets them be mobile, shooty, assaulty, and they have a 24" threat range to anything that isnt' AV13. Their sweet spot is 12" or less where they can rapid fire CC squads, or pistol/charge shooty squads.

 

If I'm gonna have my CSM sit back and shoot then I like to keep them naked and only take either 2x plasma or plasma and a heavy bolter.

 

If I want a dedicated CC unit I'll take berzerkers (note, I almost always take Mark of Khorne on my lord, which makes them scoring). ymmv.

[Iron_Within]

Unfortunately it's the way with the new marine Codex; CSM squad rack up points fast. I mean our basic squad is 140 which is nice but 150 with the almost obligatory VotLW.

 

Your build is very similar to the one I've been going for a while. It performs best against MEQ of course but I find its more a constant downpour than a torrent; whatever it's going for will take several turns.

I'm personally starting to consider my options away from the multi-use units and go for more mono-tactical viability which will give me more models on the ground. E.g. Bolter Marines with Plasma either supporting an assault unit or backed up by a Ecto Plasma Fiend.

 

What I'm getting at is what is this unit meant to do? and what is it going to work alongside in your army? I'm thinking more and more no singular unit is an island and the CSM are equally true for that. Currently its a swiss army knife and they work but perhaps pushing it slightly more in one direct might work best.

 

Lastly a question to everyone else; Are plasma guns worth taking on a CC orientated squad? I was thinking that 2 plasma guns along with the Aspiring champion above (combi plasma in and power weapon) with a Rhino would be able to jump out give of turn of nasty AP2 fire and then back a charge. Or would this be a better use for a shooty unit?

[Brother Nihm]

You could drop VotLW but other than that it looks decent.

[Moress]

You could drop VotLW but other than that it looks decent.

 

You think so? I almost consider it part of the base cost of the squad, unless its a unit thats going to stand back and shoot or their fearless.

[the jeske]

Some people like their squads diverse and some people like their squads dedicated to a single thing. If you wind up taking ubergrit and plasma then you've got to realize you're spending alot of points on those. Thus you'll have to be very careful with your units.

when plasma works best at 12" range and most games are about objectives , not having uber grit in an edition where GH exist is foolish .

[Brother Ambroz]

I always take uber grit Jeske but some people don't like I said.

[the jeske]

some people dont wear gogles durning winter , but it doesnt mean it is smart and should be mirrored by others.

[Brother Ambroz]

Depends where this winter is. For example it'd be pointless to wear goggles here during thew winter.

[derpasaurus]

looks pretty good to me. tho personally i don't take combi-weapons on my champs. plasma pistol, power weapon, melta bomb, usually. some exceptions, of course. for example., my havocs don't benefit much from plasma/power weapon as most of their shooting is outside of 2' anyway lol

i like ubergrit for an option if there are spare points, gives you more versatility, tho usually i have one group with bolters and plas, and one group with ccw and plas. votlw is almost required, gives you a nice ld bonus at least, i always include that.

chaos can get pretty expensive, yeah, but that's the idea. fewer models, but better models. it's more a question of how much you want to sink into it, and if you're gearing the unit to do something specific or just be a blanket utility item.

[Xenith]

Minus the combi weapon, my IW squads are going to look like that.

 

I'm toying with the idea of putting the MoN on them all to represent Bionics...

[zyl-]

@ iron within

 

Taking plasma on a unit that you intend to assault with is somewhat foolish if you ask me. Unless you are lucky enough to always get the biomancy power "endurance", which grants "relentless" to the unit, you won't be able to rapid fire and charge in a turn. In my mind, meltaguns are cheaper, have the same 12" assault range as the pistols do, and are pretty much easy kills without the risk of melting your own face. This doesn't even consider the tank killing power you can bear here. If I'm using plasma guns, it's on a bolter squad that sits and shoots.

[derpasaurus]

i take plasma on my squads for the ap2. some things you just don't want to assault, and that rapid fire plasma is just what you want in a case like that.

plus you never know, i've killed dreadknights with plasma overwatch before.

[Zhorzh]

VotLW is a must because of +1 Ld, and having Hatred against Marines is not bad. As for the weapon upgrades, 2x Plasma is never a bad choice, 2x Meltaguns should be used only on marked Marines with CC weapons IMO, and I believe that Plasma/Autocannon works fine if you want a camper unit. If you really want Flamers, you're probably better off with 30 Cultists with 3 Flamers or 2x20 Cultists with 2 Flamers each. You get more bodies and 1-2 extra flamers, and personally I think that Culstists with Flamers have more utility than CSMs with Flamers.

 

The only upgrade I would consider for Champs is a combi-weapon. If your CSM units rarely see CC (like mine :unsure:), all upgrades that work in CC are a waste of points.

[the jeske]

Depends where this winter is. For example it'd be pointless to wear goggles here during thew winter.

if you dont have to wear goggles then it isnt winter.

 

 

Taking plasma on a unit that you intend to assault with is somewhat foolish if you ask me.

but sooner or later csm always end up in hth , because there are so many objective games . now this would mean 2 things. First if you were right , then csm should never run plasma and second , this is shoting edition where plasma is the top gun plasma, so csm for which it is "foolish" run plasma would always be bad.

We take plasma on our csm because it is the best source to take it . just like SW take them on theri GH. Ah and SW offten go even crazier then we do , they sometimes give not one , not two , but three hth upgrades to single GH squads. And it works .

Unless you are lucky enough to always get the biomancy power "endurance", which grants "relentless" to the unit, you won't be able to rapid fire and charge in a turn.

I dont know how your games work , but the ones I saw are about focus fire . you dont double tap a squad with 1 csm squad . you hit it with everything till it is dead. to get first blood[unless it was taken] to kill the sgts and special weapon guys hiding at the back [it is not always possible to snipe or bullet bend]. I have yet to see a game of w40k where units fight[where figth is melee/shoting and counter movment] one on one .

[derpasaurus]

We take plasma on our csm because it is the best source to take it.

 

pretty much. i run meltas on the units i dedicate to close combat: raptors and chosen. i had a squad of csm with meltas and they almost never got close enough to use them, so i went to 2 full of plasma and moved the meltas to the chosen, which were assaulting too much to make use of the plasma they had. it's really just a question of how you plan to play your own army. i see a lot of people running plasma chosen for the sheer firepower, but i love the 41 attacks on i5 my slaanesh marked chosen get on the charge, so i go that route.

 

i build all my units expecting to at least get assaulted, which is why i like uber grit, just in case. i don't think it's "foolish" to go that route. it's a 2 point per model contingency plan.

[Moress]

I got a question for you guys, how do you know when to take a power mace, sword, or axe on an aspiring champ?

 

I was thinking axe on plasma squads, and maces on everything else, but how do you guys feel?

[Excessus]

I take swords or lightning claws on all of my champs. They don't have the survivability to survive a challenge to use the axe mostly...except for plague marines...

 

 

...that is, a single lightning claw. ;)

[derpasaurus]

i mostly run swords as well. i tend to stay away from single claws because they're specialist, and i like the extra attack for 2 ccw. my raptor champ has 2 claws, and i have a raptor lord hq with 2 claws.

you might like to have maces against xenos, cultists, and guard, the ap4 would ignore most of that armor. and S+2 is always handy. also could be useful in a challenge. it won't make a difference on a single wound model, where if they're wounded they die anyway, but a mace has concussive, which means the enemy model, when wounded, moves on I1 til the end of their next turn. again, however, you have the ap4, so they'll likely get a save, but it could allow for easier wounds against MC or vehicles.

i like to use axes against terminators with fists and not much else. again, survivability comes up. axes are unwieldy which puts you at I1. but they're ap2, so byebye termi saves.

power weapons all cost the same, so what you might do is just look at who you're playing and sub out your power weapon options accordingly. just make sure the guys you're playing are aware of what power weapons you actually have, if they're modeled differently there can be some issues if there's not enough clarification beforehand.

[Excessus]

Yeah, claws are specialist weapons, but the reroll to wound evens it out I guess...

 

(Edit: that, and the fact I already had fists on most of my champs, converting fingers is much easier than a whole arm ;) )

[Lepaca]

Hi All,

 

I’ve just started myself an Iron Warriors army, and I’m a little stuck with how to build my CSM squads. I’ve contemplated doing something along the lines of:

 

Aspiring Champion with Combi-Plasma, Power Sword & Bolt Pistol

9 CSM with Bolter, Bolt Pistol & CCW

2 Plasma Guns

10 VotLW

=223 points

 

Now, looking at this, it’s quite a points investment, and I don’t see anyone else using Combi weapons on their Squad Leaders; is there a reason for this? As they’re not sacrificing an attack for it, having an extra plasma gun for a turn sounds pretty good (Getting Hot aside!).

 

Really, I’m just after some pointers on how best to equip unmarked CSM squads, and whether the one above is good, or bloated.

 

Thanks!

 

The squad looks okay. If you want to min/max then drop the PS and VotLW. Maybe also the combi-plasma.