Sception Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Apparently. Too static to run away, and not enough plasma to wipe 8 guys with 4++ saves. Honestly, I play Abaddon similarly to how Marsh does, and against opponents who react in similar manners. Plasma hasn't caught on with my friends as much as it honestly should have by now, and I don't know anyone willing to abandon an objective to run away from a monster terminator unit, even if they know they'll just get wiped if they stay, anyway. So yeah, bad opponents make Abby better. On the other hand, my own Abaddon's unerring ability to home in on impassible terrain & enemy models, even if there's only just one in his deep strike bubble, and it's the full 12" away, has meant that deep striking abby has done poorly for me, even if my opponents are otherwise obliging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I've used him, only in large games. He usually deepstrikes with a plasma terminator escort and acts as the anvil for me. I still love using him, just too bad he's so damn expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Just played him against an Ork Horde army, and right now I would give him a 9 on a 10 point scale. It seems there are some tricks to getting by with him, however. The list I ran him with looked like this: - Abby - 2 combi-plasma MoN terminator squads - 3 Plasma MoN Chosen Squads - 2 CSM Squads - 3 Lascannon Havoc Squads - Heldrake The force composition creates some natural tactics. - First off, let Abaddon do what he does best. Put him out front and let things come at him, if he wins enough challenges he will be almost impossible to kill. He arrived from deep strike in the way of a group of Nob Bikers and their Biker Warboss. He killed the Warboss in a challenge, getting some boon that let him reroll armor saves. From there, he was almost invincible. - Secondly, give him good fire support. Lascannon havocs are an excellent and cheap pairing. The turn Abaddon arrived, he scattered right in the way of a Battlewagon. The lascannon havocs were able to one shot it, along with a Looted Tank that round. They eventually got around to shooting up a squad of Lootas that was threatening to do something against the Terminators. The Chosen were not as effective, given that they needed to close in with the Orks to use those Plasma guns, but it was nice seeing them gun down 10+ boys per round before getting their 2 attacks in cc. Keeping Abby and his terminators out of combat with mechs / shooting matches made a big difference in the game. - Third, pair him with things that are also hard to kill. Heldrakes are like radiation for Ork lists, they don't do AA very well. I was vector striking and balflaming things the whole game without any serious contention. It was demoralizing for my opponent, especially after he lost his big biker unit and warboss. He made mistkaes every turn from that point on. Abaddon is all about despair, and does best next to things that your opponent really can't deal with effectively. If not a Heldrake, consider a Land Raider. - Fourth (and most importantly) play for the win Throughout the game, my opponent kept throwing too much stuff at Abaddon and his terminators. I mean, you can only fit so many 20+ man boys squads in a small area of the board and expect to get them close enough to actually hit anything. I was parking my CSMs and Chosen on objectives at all other times, and this was really disruptive to my opponent. Make sure you bring enough units to spread out the board a little bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The model is a tiny, troll like guy. But it's best to think of him as Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z. He's the ultimate jobber, has lots of Rage/Hate/Fury/Spite and suffers from being able to get him where you need him fast enough. I think since he has every mark, he can be be in ANY unit. I think that limitation while fluffy, is dumb anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 The model is a tiny, troll like guy. Which is why it's better just to make your own! Or a counts as anyway, that's what I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Just played him against an Ork Horde army, and right now I would give him a 9 on a 10 point scale. It seems there are some tricks to getting by with him, however. The list I ran him with looked like this: - Abby - 2 combi-plasma MoN terminator squads - 3 Plasma MoN Chosen Squads - 2 CSM Squads - 3 Lascannon Havoc Squads - Heldrake The force composition creates some natural tactics. how do you change your tactics against orcs using necron ally or main necron codex as their army base ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think since he has every mark, he can be be in ANY unit. I think that limitation while fluffy, is dumb anyways. It's the other way around actually, since he has all four marks he will always have a different mark than any unit he joins. The mark rule doesn't allow anything per se, it forbids if there is a different mark between the unit and IC... It's ridiculous, and I'm not familiar with anyone that would enforce that sillyness(especially since Abby is bad enough as it is), so feel free to ignore it in his case. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 I think since he has every mark, he can be be in ANY unit. I think that limitation while fluffy, is dumb anyways. It's the other way around actually, since he has all four marks he will always have a different mark than any unit he joins. The mark rule doesn't allow anything per se, it forbids if there is a different mark between the unit and IC... It's ridiculous, and I'm not familiar with anyone that would enforce that sillyness(especially since Abby is bad enough as it is), so feel free to ignore it in his case. :yes: Call me pedantic, but I don't understand everyone's confusion about the RAW for independent characters and marks of chaos. Help me out here. The specific wording of the rule is that "Any independent character with a mark of chaos may not join a unit with a different mark of chaos." The phrase 'a mark of chaos' is singular, not plural. It does not refer to an independent character with multiple marks of chaos, only ones possessing a single mark of chaos. Abaddon has multiple marks, so this rule clearly does not apply to him. If the intent was to bar a unit with multiple marks of chaos from joining a marked unit, the grammatically correct way to put it would be as such: "Any independent character possessing one or more marks of chaos..." This agrees with other conventions for discussing plural objects used throughout the Codex, the authors have a way of discussing situations where there are more than one thing and this is not it. The phrase 'a mark of chaos' simply modifies the subject of the sentence (an independent character), establishing a class of subject that is limited by it's presence within the structure of the sentence. Thus, there is no basis for assuming this refers to anything outside the class established in that subject of the sentence - an independent character with a mark. Anyone involved in managing contracts or proposals for a living would tell you the same. If I am wrong, please explain to me the linguistic or pedagogical basis for how this could credibly be interpreted otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 With your grammatic variant, since Abby has more than one mark of chaos, the part that says it's included in the profile already if he has "a" mark of chaos doesn't apply either. Wow, your abby is awesome! I've had this discussion already with some "people" over at warseer and I really doesn't care about the issue that much to have another discussion, so have fun with your abby(he seems awesome with your rules). I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Anyone involved in managing contracts or proposals for a living would tell you the same. ??? And you call our economy wierd. abadon has 4 marks . check . terminators have a mark . check . does at any moment abadon have a different marks then terminators . yes , in fact 3 different marks. ergo puting him in to a marked terminator unit is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Goderic Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 Apparently. Too static to run away, and not enough plasma to wipe 8 guys with 4++ saves. Honestly, I play Abaddon similarly to how Marsh does, and against opponents who react in similar manners. Plasma hasn't caught on with my friends as much as it honestly should have by now, and I don't know anyone willing to abandon an objective to run away from a monster terminator unit, even if they know they'll just get wiped if they stay, anyway. So yeah, bad opponents make Abby better. On the other hand, my own Abaddon's unerring ability to home in on impassible terrain & enemy models, even if there's only just one in his deep strike bubble, and it's the full 12" away, has meant that deep striking abby has done poorly for me, even if my opponents are otherwise obliging. huge plasma lines have not caught on completely here, most people do not have the huge amounts of $$ that is required to field a competitive army after the shift to 6th ed, most around here have gotten a few extra/new things but not 2000+ point armies. Also, I have had great luck with 4+ inv saves, like sometimes unbelieveable. As to the static comment, most opponents will try and bring up the counter attack units all in one go after shooting everything at them, that ususally gives me the one turn I need to charge them. Or, if they flee, it's usually not enough to get them out of charge range, most people I have played will try an inflict as much damage as possible on the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UglyWretch Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I think the "Chosen are Troops" thing shouldn't be though of as "Well, I'll JUST use Chosen as Troops then", but more of a "Hmmm, my Chosen I was using just to kill their Troops off that Objective are actually holding it now. Neat." Use Chosen the way you usually would, but they can also hold an Objective. Imagine your last turn gambles where you throw a Chosen unit at an Objective holding squad just to get them off the Objective, and you might actually gain the Onjective. I mean, Chosen being Troops doesn't stop CSMs or Cultists being Troops too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Has anyone considered a Chosen unit with 5 Flamers? In my experience you get about 4 to 6 models under the template. multiply that by 5 that's between 20 and 30 hits, which is pretty nasty. a 10 man unit costs 205 before transport. Wouldn't that be ideal to clear off objectives, or is it overkill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Anyone involved in managing contracts or proposals for a living would tell you the same. ??? And you call our economy wierd. abadon has 4 marks . check . terminators have a mark . check . does at any moment abadon have a different marks then terminators . yes , in fact 3 different marks. ergo puting him in to a marked terminator unit is illegal. Sorry for all that think that Abaddon has 4 marks! Abaddon only have one mark: The Mark of Chaos Ascendant! http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p206x206/71718_513275202025939_1593714115_n.jpg That mark combines all the 4 marks of the chaos gods... In terms of game... Abaddon only have one... that makes him undivided! So... he can join to different units with differents marks... He tamed all. ------- For apply the restriction to Abaddon his profile must have: Mark of Nurgle, Mark of Slaneesh, Mark of Tzeencht and Mark of Khorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepaca Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 RAI: Abbadon can join any marked units. RAW: p. 57 "[Abbadon] also has all four Marks of Chaos." p. 30 "An Independant Character with a Mark of Chaos may not join a unit with a different Mark of Chaos." So RAW he can't join any marked units. Still, if you play anyone outside of a super competetive tournament enviroment and he causes you trouble because of this then don't play him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loku Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 p. 57 "[Abbadon] also has all four Marks of Chaos." But he is not dedicated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Steel Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 One more mistake in the CSM codex which should have been caught at the proof-reading stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 We all know how it should be read, so it shouldn't matter in casual games. In tournament games, Abby's non-competitive anyway due to his collossal price and miniscule threat radius, so it really shouldn't matter. He's cool and he does what he does. Kind of like Typhus that way. Obviously FAQ/Errata is needed, but otherwise my only real complaint about Abaddon is that Drachnyen should be the high strength weapon option, and the talon should be the many attacks option. But that's not all that big a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 my only real complaint about Abaddon is that Drachnyen should be the high strength weapon option, and the talon should be the many attacks option. But that's not all that big a deal. But Mali it was either that way or make the Talon of Horus AP-2 which doesn't make much sense either ya know? As a lightning claw and all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Why is the Talon Sx2, it's a lightning claw - see? His weapons just a set of stats. Fine stats, mind, they just don't feel terribly evocative to me. I'm not sure what I would have done differently had I been designing him - maybe talon as x2 attacks (total of six), AP3, shred & rending, drachnyen as a single add'l attack at Init 1, AP1, auto wound/penetrate, instant death? I don't know. I like the story of Abby busting down the gates of the Kromarchs (or however it's spelled) palace, and the current drachnyen just couldn't do that, even if it is a plenty powerful weapon as far as 6e melee weapons go. It's a big deal or anything. Like I said, very minor complaint, i still like Abby in the current book, he's more or less what I wanted him to be, at least personally. Like many, I kind of wish he made terminators troops instead of chosen. And that undivided lords made chosen into troops as well, but that's neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Oh yes I know, I'm just explaining that was only one way they could've done it. I'm unsure of how I would do it either honestly. It's obvious Kelly wanted Abby to have both AP 2 and 3 attacks but it's hard to do that with his current set of weapons. If he had D6 extra attacks at AP 2 and double strength? That'd be pretty ridiculous, even if nobody would ever use him because of mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 p. 57 "[Abbadon] also has all four Marks of Chaos." But he is not dedicated... fluff has nothing to with rules. If we played fluff armies IG should be dieing from psychic feed back of a non farseer/warlock just walking by . That'd be pretty ridiculous, even if nobody would ever use him because of mobility. isnt that more or less what he did in the gav dex? because I dont remember :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 That'd be pretty ridiculous, even if nobody would ever use him because of mobility. isnt that more or less what he did in the gav dex? because I dont remember :cuss Somewhat, back when melee didn't have an AP and it wasn't really a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 so he was ap2 striking at I . weapons got nerfed then . doesnt matter aint worth the points . If someone realy has to buy a 250+pts HQ then A DP or tyfus are much better. One is more killy and the other gives chaos zombis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Not quite the point, they were trying to represent the different specialist weapons that Abbadon carries. doesnt matter aint worth the points . Then again......FLUFF is all that matters!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.