Grey Knights Threat

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

I am a new 40K player (and an old wargamer) and I have won most of my games against long time 40k players. (Estimate your chances and take risks accordingly is my winning formula) These games have been on the 400 to 750 Pts range. Now I have been threatened with grey knights. Whats up with them. What can they do which we Wolves cant counter?

[Squark]

Possible Grey Knights threats;

 

 

1) Deep striking against Grey Knights, particularly with Coteaz (Who, at 100 points, can and will show up at low point games) is suicidal. Warp Quake+ Coteaz's "I've been Expecting You" is the best deep strike defense in the game, bar none. So, if you have units in drop pods, just drop the pods empty

 

2) If your opponent fields an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor, forget about using plasma weapons. Plasma siphons completely hose them

 

 

As a general rule, Grey Knights units tend to be very powerful individually, but they're expensive, so they have to rely on coordination to defeat the enemy. Things to note; -Every Grey Knights unit except the inquisitors and their henchmen are psykers.

-All Grey Knights come with Storm bolters, and large squads will pack psybolt ammunition to make those storm bolters strength 5.

-Psycannons are S7 Assault cannons, if I remember correctly (I.E. Fantastic)

-Every Grey Knight has a specialized Force Weapon (By default, they get a 3+ invul in close combat, I believe, but trading up from a nemesis force sword can give them more attacks, higher innitiative, a 2+ Invul save all the time, or a Thunderhammer profile). Assault them at your peril, especially if the unit has an incinerator.

-Inquisitorial henchmen squads are incredibly, incredibly killy, but also very fragile. Fear them. Coteaz (A Cheap special character who is a common pick for HQ) makes them troops.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

So Melters Rocketlaunchers, Laser cannons and minimal CC with lots of movement? Canceling plasma shots ------nasty

[MeatGrinder]

Possible Grey Knights threats;

-Psycannons are S7 Assault cannons, if I remember correctly (I.E. Fantastic)

-Every Grey Knight has a specialized Force Weapon (By default, they get a 3+ invul in close combat, I believe, but trading up from a nemesis force sword can give them more attacks, higher innitiative, a 2+ Invul save all the time, or a Thunderhammer profile). Assault them at your peril, especially if the unit has an incinerator.

-Inquisitorial henchmen squads are incredibly, incredibly killy, but also very fragile. Fear them. Coteaz (A Cheap special character who is a common pick for HQ) makes them troops.

 

No way in hell they get a 3+ invul, they get +1 to their invul (ONLY if they already have one, if they dont it has no effect) with a sword.

Falchions give them and extra attack, the stave give them a 2+ invul save in combat, halberds give higher I, and daemonhammer is just a thunder hammer.

Theyre all unusual force weapons, except the hammer, so theyre ap3.

Be aware, psycannons halve their shots if they move before firing them.

 

Anything with a 2+ save is good, terminators stomp all over GK squads, because all their fancy bonuses mean little vs 2+ armour and power fists. Be aware how much firepower a GK army can put out at 24", with 2 shots per model plus their psycannons. A rune priest or two should shut down most of their powers per turn.

 

The best advice I ca give is to get a copy of their armybook and familiarise yourself with all their tricks, all the grenades, the weapons, the powers, the units. Dont let your opponent suprise you with something.

[Iacton Qruze]

Aside from Coteaz, which I've only faced once, and Bjorn just challenged him into the ground, only two things come to mind that can be tough to get around .

 

Warp Quake and Psychotrope Grenades.

 

The grenades are just BS and not even an expensive upgrade, so watch out for the Techmarines and Inquisitors.

 

Warp Quake is just a pain if you deep strike and don't go first.

 

The rest is just a really solid midfield shooting army with a ton of ap3 melee. Bring your 2+ saves and some invuls and you should be solid.

[WG Vrox]

The Storm Ravens can be a pain, its basically a flying Land Raider with 12 armor. The main threat to watch out for from the Raven is its Mind Strike Missiles which can cause parels of the warp for any Psyker. So make sure you keep you Rune Priest inside a Rhino when those things are around. The fun thing is if the missile drifts over any GK model it will suffer the same fate as they are all Psykers.

[Squark]

Note to self: Don't take army guides out of context when you haven't read the codex. No idea where that misunderstanding about nemesis force sword's effect came from.

 

 

Having taken some time to peruse the codex tonight while brainstorming ideas for an allied detatchment, here's a couple more thoughts;

 

 

1) Be aware of the point costs: Grey Knights are really, really expensive. Space Wolves, conversely, are (Thunderwolves and Wolf Guard Terminators with equipment aside) really cheap. So, you're not going to be facing a ton of models.

2) Tailoring lists is a bad practice and will win you no friends, so keep that and mind, and try to limit yourself to tactics changes.

3) As has been said, apart from Nemesis Daemonhammers (Thunderhammers that are better against demons, basically), most Grey Knights are packing AP 3 weapons. So, Terminators will do well against them, but at 750 points, you probably don't have the points for terminators.

4) Strike Knights warp quake power will really wreck your day if you try to deep strike nearby them, as aforementioned. So, don't do that.

5) Grey Knights are a highly mobile force; Virtually every shooty model in the army has a storm bolter (Which, with a reasonably priced upgrade, can become Strength 5), And their Psycannons can choose between Assault 2 or Heavy 4 as the situation dictates.

6) Grey Knights have an absurd amount of grenades variants (And wargear variants period, frankly. Matt Ward was not designing according to KISS principles when he wrote the codex). Psych-out Grenades are just plain nasty, but their other forms of grenades like Rad Grenades or Psychotroke Grenades are nothing to sneeze at either.

7) While they don't have runic weapons, their psychic defenses are still above average thanks to virtually every unit (including the vehicles- I can only presume it's the Grey Knights inside of them using the power) being a psyker. To deal with this, I'd recommend your Rune Priest, if he doesn't normally, taking a more aggressive role, and getting closer to the front lines, rather than chilling with Long Fangs. Cancelling those psychic powers is critical

8) Inquisitors are dirt cheap. Seriously, sans upgrades, they're only 25 points (Granted, you want to upgrade them, but even after they've been upgraded, they're still going to be cheaper than your Rune Priest). The points Grey Knights save here go to pay for every other unit in the codex (A fully upgraded strike knights (2 Psycannons, 2 Daemonhammers, Psybolt Ammunition) squad in a rhino is 300 points, for example- 260 footslogging. And Strike Knights are the basic troop choice). Inquisitorial warbands (They get 1 per inquisitor, and they don't take up a force org slot) can be incredibly shooty or incredibly close combat oriented.

9) They shouldn't have points for it at 750 points, but Stormravens are to be feared.

[Mr.darkness]

At 24 inches their firepower is awesome, and will really hurt you, but outside of that they only have psyfleman, each are ap4 ( but can double out your characters, so still be careful). Compared to that, you will hae much better long range firepower with long fangs, but not as good at 24.

 

In cc there has the potential to beat you with some relatively cheap upgrades. Rad and psychotroke grenades n inquisitors are something to watch out for, and you definitely want to be charging them, not the other way round, even with counter attack, as 20 ap 3 attacks are nothing to sniff at, especially if they get hammerhand off.

 

Finally, watch out for your hq, he can be force weaponed by any of their gk guys, so just be careful when you are in cc.

[William Van Auger]

I would say your main risk at the moment is any flying vehicles. since the wolves cant skyfire or take any flyers of their own there isnt a whole lot you can do about them. but since not every knights army will contain a storm raven you should be alright, though there are army lists you can take if you dont mind ally forces.

[Russ Brother 92]

I would say your main risk at the moment is any flying vehicles. since the wolves cant skyfire or take any flyers of their own there isnt a whole lot you can do about them. but since not every knights army will contain a storm raven you should be alright, though there are army lists you can take if you dont mind ally forces.

 

If you knew that you'd be up against at least one flyer (likely in a tournament these days) take a guard ally and buy a coupla hydras - they're 75pts a piece, have 72" range and skyfire on two twin-linked autocannons (that's 8 S7 AP4 Skyfire shots re-rolling) not bad for 150pts.

 

Otherwise I suggest taking out HQs and Termies first - the rest you're still on par with as long as you can keep the psychic stuff down with your rune priests and wolf tail talismans.

[Brom MKIV]

The rest is just a really solid midfield shooting army with a ton of ap3 melee. Bring your 2+ saves and some invuls and you should be solid.

This pretty much sums it up. Honorable mention to shunting dreadknights, their like cheaper faster mephistons that can claim objectives. And have torrenting flamers. Lone wolves WILL go toe to toe with these dudes though and plasma isnt that hard to come by for us.

 

Anyway Ive played with and against GKs many times and I can tell you from experience they are NOT that good at assualt. The whole army of power weapons thing is a facade. Ive lost far more assaults then ive won with my GK strikers, interceptors, and even terminators, especially to grey hunter packs and blood angels RAS as well as hammernators.

 

Anything ap2-3 i.e. MISSILES with their superior range and ID, as well as melta and plasma, vindis etc all of which hurt GKs bad, and actually assault does OK too. Get in close where your bolters are equal to their stormbolters and rapid plasma death their grey asses. Podded sternguard equivalents are also good, IF you arent subject to warp quake. If facing one of their subpar storm ravens remember to embark your rune priest in a transport.

 

Edit- Do take note of the ulamethi (sp?) plasma syphon as you could potentially encounter it, although its not currently a popular option since HQ slots are tight and the malleus inquis is the better choice. Also GK force swords do not give invuln saves only +1 to invulns in CC which usually doesnt really even come into play. Cheers.

[Ozeryk_Sleipnijr]

Thanx for all the advice. I can see what I must do. But please clarify the following statement.

 

"If facing one of their subpar storm ravens remember to embark your rune priest in a transport."

Why?

[Astoran]

Thanx for all the advice. I can see what I must do. But please clarify the following statement.

 

"If facing one of their subpar storm ravens remember to embark your rune priest in a transport."

Why?

 

Because of Mindstrike Missiles. They will take the RP down really fast.