Eorek Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Some units in the codex are quite overpriced compared to their counterparts(will give examples in a bit) that to me makes no sense. The units I'm talking about are Legion Assault Squad and Justaerin Terminator Squad. The Justaerin: Since stating point costs on B&C isn't legal I'll post slightly incorrect point costs if posted at all. A squad of justaerin which is a 3 man squad costs 100 points more than they should. Upgrading the squad with additional terminators costs no way near as much as buying the initial 3. It's just as if they've done a typo and written 200 instead of 100 on the justaerin cost. Compared to any other terminator(honour guard, death shroud, standard) they are super overpriced. Even at a 10 man squad(most cost effective) they are atleast 15 points more expensive than any other terminator. The legion Assault squad The less obvious typo, Here the initial squad is bought at 10 marines, but you pay for the squad as follows : Marine cost x 10 + 100... Just as the justaerin, Compare this to the tactical squad where you pay the same base price per marine, but not the additional 100 points which makes the assault marines super expensive in 10 man squads... A Legion command jump pack-marine(artificer armour, 1 more Weapon skillS, 1 more Attack, character, bolter+bolt pistol&close combat weapon and a legion standard additional) costs only 10 points more than a standard assault marine ... Does not add up if you ask me. And as everyone has seen this book is far from without typos... My personal favorite is that it says "Warhound" under the Reaver titan entry. So I dare say it is intended for both the justaerin and the assault squad being 100 points cheaper than they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darog Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 One idea is that the other legions will have special rules that will reduce the cost of certain units, as is the case with the White scars and bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I'm not quite as sold that the Assault Troops are too over priced, but I completely agree on the Justaerin being very pricey. They do have some additional special rules and the unique ability to carry a multi-melta, but I don't think it is a typo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted December 14, 2012 Author Share Posted December 14, 2012 One idea is that the other legions will have special rules that will reduce the cost of certain units, as is the case with the White scars and bikes. You raise a valid point regarding the assault marines, Didn't think of that, but the justaerin still remain... and I believe Assault marines won't get a 100 points cost reduce. White scars for example might be able to take bikes as troops much as a rites of war praetor taking pride of the legion for example. I'm not quite as sold that the Assault Troops are too over priced, but I completely agree on the Justaerin being very pricey. They do have some additional special rules and the unique ability to carry a multi-melta, but I don't think it is a typo. Well, 75-ish point terminators with higher WS and furious charge. hmph Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261385 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I spoke to my old GW manager at games day who now works for forge world, he said the increase in initial points cost is to make people take larger squads to get across the idea that the heresy was built around large units, its to persuade you to take a unit of 20 over two units of ten. That was the concept, hence standard tacticals being a third cheaper then their initial counterparts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Well, 75-ish point terminators with higher WS and furious charge. hmph Well, let me rephrase: three, for their base price, is astronomical. But ten, a full squad, is a bargain. When adding another model to the squad is almost a 50% savings over the base per-model cost, you can tell the designers want you to have big squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorOfMankind Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 exactly, big squads = more profits! And with a 10man tact squad with bolters coming in around the £60 mark I'm sure they're rubbing their hands with glee! (I can't say much, I'm still buying them!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex567 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 More profits = more sculpts! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim AMM realgenius Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 If more profits means more Heresy books, them I'm all in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3261573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The Justaerin's have more then a few differences to them, and it's up to you to figure out if they are worth the points for them. I don't think this is a typo at all. Sometimes, you have to look at what the unit brings to the army, or in this case, the Sons of Horus. If you really don't think this unit brings anything to the army, then don't take them. A Termy unit that is stubborn and has furious charge at +1 WS and +1 LD seems to be worth it to me! Remember, regular Legion Terminators do not have ATSKNF, so Stubborn becomes very important so you don't get swept in a sweeping advance. I get the sense that if you want to play/fight in the Horus Heresy, you have to go big or go home. Big squads- troops choices of 20 models? Dreadnaught squadrons? Fellblades? I wouldn't play a game smaller then 2000 points with these guys. At 2000+ points, you can take an "overpriced terminator squad" because they are the Favored of Horus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3262565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 10 Legion Terminators with 2 Reapers and 5 powerfists: 375 10 Justaerin with 2 reapers and 5 powerfists: 500p Paying 125 points for WS5, FC, fearless and +1ld? Or I am missing some point here or they are horribly overpriced... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3262892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 10 Legion Terminators with 2 Reapers and 5 powerfists: 37510 Justaerin with 2 reapers and 5 powerfists: 500p Paying 125 points for WS5, FC, fearless and +1ld? Or I am missing some point here or they are horribly overpriced... yes but let's put it into context here - you've got 10 WS5, S5, Stubborn, LD9 SCORING Terminators on the charge (so those Thunder Hammers and Power Fists will be ID'ing everything...) all for a few points more than your average terminator... plus if you ARE running a Sons of Horus army with Old Horus himself, he gets these guys as his Command Squad AND you can take another 30 as Elites (if you're that way inclined). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3262919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Well, that is one way to look at it. The other way is that you are paying more than a 100 points to five WS5, the leadership bonus and the chance of having str5 to a unit of terminators, who are already scoring (and, opposite to justaerin, can be taken as troops...) In my case the leadership bonuses don't count that much as 90% of the time my termis will scort my HQ, so I feel like I'm paying 100ish points just for WS and furious charge I'm not saying they are bad, I'm saying that, unless I'm missing something, I think that one should pick terminators over justaerin anytime... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3263170 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodReavers Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think the thing you are missing is the army wide special rule they get, if they outnumber a unit at the initiative 1 step in close combat, they immediately get another attack. Terminators which have the bulky rule count as 2 models each. Horus counts as 3 because of very bulky. I always thought since it was a "brawler" rule, the extra attack was with base strength and no AP, representing elbows and knees, headbutts and the like, sort of like the Blood Angel's special character. But since they are just an extra attack, and a unit of 10 models counts as 20 for outnumbering purposes, that is a lot of extra "free" powerfist attacks. Normally a "veteran" upgrade, which only gives you +1A is around 10 points, see vanguard veterans, honor guard, now these are veterans already, and probably getting yet another attack... I can start to see why they are priced more. Just my thoughts on why they are more expensive than the other terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3263188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think the biggest thing you all missed on the justaerin is that they all come in cataphractii plate. So you are paying more for a 4++, Stubborn, Furious Charge, +1 WS, +1 Ld, and dreadclaws as a dedicated transport option so they can deepstrike when other termis can't. They are not over costed at all in my opinion. Assault Marines are the same base price as C:SM jump troops so where is the over price there? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3263269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I can see the point of paying more for the legion rule giving them +1A, I missed that point. It is not sure that you are getting that attack, but you are likely to, so I'm fine with that. On the other point, catahractii armor is free on legion termis. So, Justaerin are good for their points, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3263415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Brother 92 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I would say so yes - I am inclined to wait till they release the models and other primarch models (can't wait to see how they do Fulgrim and Ferrus) - however as I'm going to be doing a Death Guard army, I'll only be having a small detatchment of each 'specialist' unit as bodyguards for the various Primarchs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267772-overpriced-units-in-the-hh-bertrayal-book/#findComment-3263496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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