Helbrutes vs. Maulerfiends

[Gresiloth]

Simple topic, what are the pros and cons of these two choices?

 

For an extra 20pts you get what strikes me as a much more formidable CC choice in the Maulerfiend, though ofcourse the Helbrute is a versatile ballistic option too (though I dislike the Crazed idea). The Maulerfiend also seems to have loads of excellent built in bonuses, like 5++ and It Will Not Die, Fleet, Move Through Cover, Daemonic Possession... Lasher tendrils option.... In fact I don't see any reason to choose a Close combat brute instead of Maulerfiend.

 

Thoughts?

[Hazath]

If you have an extra HS slot left, then I guess Maulerfiend is better.

 

Even so, I don't know if Maulerfiend are worth it. armor value 12, WS 3 and I 3 isn't that great IMO.

[Chaeron]

Maulerfiend is the better of the two options - but I wouldn't choose either in a competitive list.

[compgeek1602]

The maulerfiend is very, very competitive, IMO. This is because it has a 5+ invul, ignoring one third of all incoming fire, something no other CC option in the chaos army can boast, other than daemon princes, obviously. It also gains lost hull points back, which is something i have found to be deceptively powerful, as it increases the resilience of the daemon engines we have exponentially. I quite literally haven't lost my heldrake in 15 games, and i've only lost my forgefiend in one. My maulerfiend hasn't died yet, but I only started using it three games ago, so, I can't really say with utter certainty that it won't have the same results, but since those three have stats that are very, very similar, I'm going to say that the maulerfiend is going to behave the same way, and I LOVE how much it wrecks. I use the melta-cutters on it, and that auto-hit at I1 is awesome. I kill a vehicle every single time I charge one. Every. Single. Time. It's honestly downright sick how good they are at killing vehicles. And, obviously, they mow through infantry like it's cool.

[compgeek1602]

Oh, also, crazed got fixed, and that double shot ability is absolutely awesome with a reaper AC. 4 TL'd shots at S7 is pretty sweet. I've used a helbrute in a couple games, and it's nice, but the maulerfiend is better, since it has WAY more resilience

[Plaguecaster]

I reckon they are both good trying to include both these beasts in most of my games though they both have totally different roles. Maulerfiend is a fast walker that rushes the enemies flank destroying any vehicle it touches mostly it will die if not supported with other heavy fire though never underestimate its ability to survive when it should of died it can happen when you least expect it however one thing unlike the hellbrute avoid charging WS4 units like marines etc as with WS3 like most daemon engines it will struggle in drawn out combat eventually dying. Keep it moving it is a vehicle hunter focus solely on vehicles and it will do wonders attack infantry on its own and will die in the first round most likely . I was versing a necron army which had 2 monoliths with lots of warriors, I charged the first one destroying it it then shrugged off an entire turn of necron gauss fire to take down the second one you should of seen the necron players face it was utterly priceless.

 

Hellbrute is a mixed role depending on what you want if you want a combat fiend it can be just as brutal as the fiend though not tough, it can be outfitted with a variety of weapons to deal with most situations and you no longer have the problem in the old codex where your hellbrute/ dread would literally stab you in the back going crazy firing at your units (yes it can still happen though new crazed rules are more better for you) I use my hellbrutes a support units so place them near a unit of plague marines etc to provide covering fire with lascannons or reaper autocannons attracting fire with a power scourge mostly to help the squad it is helping to wipe out anything they assault or bogging down my opponents hard hitting units sacrificing itself in order for the protected squad to attack more vulnerable targets.

 

If anything both Hellbrutes and Fiends have the potential to be very competitive if used right though you have to realize that both of these cool walkers will probably always be destroyed in most games however if they cause havoc for your opponent the sacrifice is worth it as the Chaos Gods will grant you their blessings.

[Chaeron]

The maulerfiend is very, very competitive, IMO.

 

Not when I can take two Forgefiends!

 

Don't get me wrong, larger games it can be very useful - love the model and it does have a role to play, but I think given what you'll face at that point level, and given the capabilities of all your other choices - you'll want ranged fire in the form of Forgefiends over them.

[compgeek1602]

I take both! I take a forgefiend, a havoc AC team, and a maulerfiend. I love the synergy that trio has, honestly. combined with my giant blocks of cultists and plagues, my opponents have just been overwhelmed. My forgfiend and havocs provide covering fire for my maulerfiend to get into combat. He moves so ridiculously fast with the siege crawler rule that he's in CC on turn two, every single time.

[Antarius]

The maulerfiend is very, very competitive, IMO. This is because it has a 5+ invul, ignoring one third of all incoming fire, something no other CC option in the chaos army can boast, other than daemon princes, obviously.

Well, there's also Possessed and Warp Talons, as well as Mutilators and cc-geared Terminators.

Not disagreeing with your overall point though. I don't know enough about Maulerfiends to tell the truth.

[Gresiloth]

Taking a slight tangent (still daemon engine related, not worth separate thread), I really like the thought of 2 Hades Autocannons on a Forgefiend as a vehicle killer: are you guys finding you'd take it in place of a triple lascannon predator? The latter is still clinching it in my mind as it is considerably cheaper, better BS and S9 AP2... but then again 2 hades autocannons seems really versatile as an infantry killer too.

[Predator X]

Taking a slight tangent (still daemon engine related, not worth separate thread), I really like the thought of 2 Hades Autocannons on a Forgefiend as a vehicle killer: are you guys finding you'd take it in place of a triple lascannon predator? The latter is still clinching it in my mind as it is considerably cheaper, better BS and S9 AP2... but then again 2 hades autocannons seems really versatile as an infantry killer too.

 

Personally, I think its a waste of the ability to have 3 x Ectoplasm Cannons than put 2 x H-AC on the Forgefiend, I'd rather a squad of Havocs with 4 x H-AC for my AC filling.

[Chaeron]

The maulerfiend is very, very competitive, IMO. This is because it has a 5+ invul, ignoring one third of all incoming fire, something no other CC option in the chaos army can boast, other than daemon princes, obviously.

Well, there's also Possessed and Warp Talons, as well as Mutilators and cc-geared Terminators.

Not disagreeing with your overall point though. I don't know enough about Maulerfiends to tell the truth.

 

Of those options, I'd really only want to run with the latter.

 

Bearing in mind, your standard PM can take and dish it out just as well with a tooled Champion - I don't believe we're an army that needs to designate specific squads for things when we're competent and arguably best at close range anyway.

[nurglez]

I am yet to use a maulerfiend, but I have had a few games with a 2xhac forgefiend, and I quite like it. It generally does some damage, and I use it and a squad of autocannon havocs as my anti air (each squad fires 8 shots and as they need 6's to hit the BS3 of the forgefiend doesn't matter).

 

Sure 3 ectoplasma are nasty, but the possibility to kill yourself has put me off even trying that, plus the short range.

[compgeek1602]

The maulerfiend is very, very competitive, IMO. This is because it has a 5+ invul, ignoring one third of all incoming fire, something no other CC option in the chaos army can boast, other than daemon princes, obviously.

Well, there's also Possessed and Warp Talons, as well as Mutilators and cc-geared Terminators.

Not disagreeing with your overall point though. I don't know enough about Maulerfiends to tell the truth.

 

Yes, I had quite forgotten about those..... thanks for correcting that. I'd like to also add defilers, since they have quite a CC punch, obviously.

 

However, as far as vehicles go, the maulerfiend has a few advantages:

1) It moves faster than most infantry... MUCH faster.

2) It has a 5+ Invul combined with AV12, negating any weapon of S5 or lower, and significantly reducing the threat of all weapons of S6-8.

3) It can be armed with lasher tendrils, significantly hampering the effectiveness of infantry in B2B with it, or it can be equipped with melta cutters, giving it automatic S8 melta hits against a target.

 

Very few units in the Chaos 'dex can bring this combination of abilities to the battlefiend.

 

Now, helbrutes, as teutonicavenger stated, are much more flexible, being capable of quite a bit of shooting, and also having a solid CC capability with double fists or a powermaul, however, the drop in resilience is hard for me to justify. I love the model, but it hasn't been in any of my lists for some time now. Perhaps in apocalypse.

 

I love havocs, but I also love having the S8, which is just amazing. Which is why I run one of each.

 

Edit: Internet died, so only half of my post showed.