Which combination of chapters?

[Mr.darkness]

Hi guys, I've not posted here for a while but I have been lurking.

I have been playing 'crons since just before 6th came out, and been really enjoying it. The problem is, that if I am playing more friendly games or against beginners, then it's a bit dull when i bring out my best necron list and just crush them, because thy can't hit my night fight jinking skimmers and don't have enough anti air, and don't know how to deal with scarabs.

Because of this I am looking to start another list. This thread is about one option, a space marine list, based around drop pods. Space marines because I already have a fair few models, and drop pods because they're cool and will present me with a new kind of challenge.

From what i have heard, drop pods are much better in this edition, thanks to the disembarking rules, and the new reserves, and opportunity for a comms relay.

So, onto the questions:

 

1) Are fully drop pod lists viable, or am I better off doing a hybrid of drop pods and no pods. I guess the weakness of semi drop podding is that you run the risk of the opponent alpha striking the bit thats on the board, especially if they are playing daemons or guard, so it would be nice tactically to be able to drop in everything. what do you think?

 

2) Which codex/es are best for this kind of list. As far as I can see, every marine codex brings something. Wolves get to drop pod termies. BA get sang priests, and anti air. smurfs get people like vulkan. and thats just off the top of my head, about codexes that I don't really know. so, any advice ? I am guessing allies are probably going to come into play, as the codexes seem to offer different things.

 

In terms of models I already have, I own a 3rd company of BA ( though they can be played as C:SM) as well as a first company of BA ( 20 assault termies, 30 tacticaly termies, 20 sternguard, 30 vanguard, also playable as C:SM), 2 drop pods ( probably going to have to buy more), 9 rhinos/razors, 3 vindis, and a variety of other stuff like land speeders, couple of dreads, etc...

 

So, basicalyl looking for any opinions of which codex for drop podding, and general stuff, then I'll formulate a list, and stick it in the relevant forum.

[Brother Olberon]

raven guards are your path to travel

[DarkGuard]

Tactics question belongs in Tactica Astartes.

[Mr.darkness]

sorry, I've never even seen this forum before, I've not scrolled down far enough!!

 

 

Raven guard you say, to be honest I dont really see how they fit. Sure the fluff works in that they like to deepstrike but shrike does little for this army, as they don't really need fleet. care to embellish?

[Paulochromis]

things to look at are:

(1) drop pod assault rules: C:SM/BA/SW <> C:DA/BT (former are half rounded up T1; latter are as per normal reserves)

so you weren't stuck when the opponent reserved everything in 5th, but they can't do that in 6th anyway.

(2) drop pod capacity: C:SM=12xPA/10xPA+1xTDA/1xDread/1xTFC+Techmarine; C:BA/SW/DA=10xPA/1xDread; C:BT=10xPA/1xDread/5xTDA

difficult to allow IC(s) to accompany squads unless C:SM

(3) units that make good use of pods (C:SM/BA Sternguard; C:SW Grey Hunters; C:BT Sword Brethren Terminators)

 

I think all pod gets difficult - if your opponent goes first, you auto-lose at the end of his first turn since you have nothing on the table.

 

I'm leaning towards using a C:SW allied detachment of RunePriest(JP) + 2x 10x Grey Hunters (PGx2, Pod).

Primary detachment (C:SM or C:BA) includes a drop pod of multiple Combi-Melta-equipped Sternguards.

Between them, with RunePriest casting Prescience, I get decent First Blood opportunities and/or defensive structures.

 

Rest of the primary is non-podded, and needs to provide mobility, assault and shooting (C:SM bikes, C:BA jumpers and C:SM/BA heavy support).

[Mr.darkness]

Interesting that you say BA with SW allies. That is what i thought at first, but then I cam to the problem of troops. At 1750, I find that 4 troops is enough. with this army, I would have 2x GH, 1x sniper scouts ( BA ), and one other. The problem is that I can't decide what BA troop I like. I could go for another scout squad. Or a small assault squad who doesn't come down on the first turn. Or a larger assault squad, like the BA equivalent of GH ( but then why not take SW primary?).

 

The other conundrum i cam across is the size of the sternguard. do I go for ten man, and the ability to combat squad. This would give me more survivability, but means a character cannot join them ( do they need one?), or do they go for a 7-8 man squad. Enough to easily wreck a vehicle, can take a character if they want, but cannot combat squad. Then again, do they even want to comb at squad? they arent troops, but I guess I would gain the target saturation and options. Any thoughts?

 

Anyway, before you posted I came up with this pure SW list:

 

Rune priest with chooser ( JOTWW, LL)

Rune priest ( JOTWW, MH)

 

7x wolf guard with:

- 2x combi melta, power weapon

- 3x termie armour, combi weapon

- 1x termie armour, CML

- 1x termie armour, combi weapon, chainfist

pod

 

8x GH with melta, power weapon, standard, MOTW, pod

8x GH with melta, power weapon, standard, MOTW, pod

5x GH with flamer, pod

 

5x LF with 4x RL, pod

5x LF with 4x RL

 

aegis defense line with quad gun.

 

Thats 1426, so I have 324 to play with.

The basic tactics were that there are 5 pods, so the termies and big GH squads drop on first turn. The long fangs sit behind the aegis and shoot. The small GH squad shoots the quad gun and scores.

One or both of the priests may swap for divination. If there are lots of flyers, then they may babysit the long fangs.

I am not sure about what power weapons or combi weapons I want yet, but thats not really the point. The idea was just to show the sort of list I want.

 

However, with your advice, I would consider dropping a RP, the termies, and the small LF squad, for a C:SM libby with null zone/gate, 2x sniper scouts (maybe with Telion), and a 10 man squad of sternguard with combis. If there are still points then there are plenty of options in C:SM. maybe deepstriking speeders, or attack bikess with MM, or another LF squad ( they're better than devs). The only problem I see is that I will end up with an even no. pods. ( termies, 2x GH, 2x LF, sternguard), so I will have to make sure I get another in).

 

In the meantime, any more thought, comments etc.. are appreciated.

[Paulochromis]

The other conundrum i cam across is the size of the sternguard. do I go for ten man, and the ability to combat squad. This would give me more survivability, but means a character cannot join them ( do they need one?), or do they go for a 7-8 man squad. Enough to easily wreck a vehicle, can take a character if they want, but cannot combat squad. Then again, do they even want to comb at squad? they arent troops, but I guess I would gain the target saturation and options. Any thoughts?

If you go with Sternguard from C:SM, the C:SM drop pod seats 12, so they can take a character.

Although expensive, you could consider Lysander - VERY nice for Bolter Drill for the post-drop salvo, then he can leave them to fly "solo" afterwards.

 

I'm no C:SW expert, you'd probably do better looking in the SW-specific subforums for discussions of good "pure SW" podding lists.

 

One thing I will say is that an even number of pods isn't bad per se. You need to consider your "waves". In your amended list, not sure why you'd give two pods to your LFs. Given that your taking an ADL, I would even suggest that you might consider giving the LFs Razorbacks instead.

[Mr.darkness]

The pod on the LF was there so that I could drop all the GH and the termies on the first turn.

 

I would be tempted by lysander, he looks pretty good, especially with the bolter drill.

 

Well, I think i have my chapters then. I will go for space wolves, and probably C:SM, if I choose to make this list. I'll do a thread is the SW list review forums to see what they think, and whether they feel I need the sternguard.

Thanks for all the help!

[Jehoel]

things to look at are:

(1) drop pod assault rules: C:SM/BA/SW <> C:DA/BT (former are half rounded up T1; latter are as per normal reserves)

so you weren't stuck when the opponent reserved everything in 5th, but they can't do that in 6th anyway.

(2) drop pod capacity: C:SM=12xPA/10xPA+1xTDA/1xDread/1xTFC+Techmarine; C:BA/SW/DA=10xPA/1xDread; C:BT=10xPA/1xDread/5xTDA

difficult to allow IC(s) to accompany squads unless C:SM

(3) units that make good use of pods (C:SM/BA Sternguard; C:SW Grey Hunters; C:BT Sword Brethren Terminators)

 

I think all pod gets difficult - if your opponent goes first, you auto-lose at the end of his first turn since you have nothing on the table.

 

I'm leaning towards using a C:SW allied detachment of RunePriest(JP) + 2x 10x Grey Hunters (PGx2, Pod).

Primary detachment (C:SM or C:BA) includes a drop pod of multiple Combi-Melta-equipped Sternguards.

Between them, with RunePriest casting Prescience, I get decent First Blood opportunities and/or defensive structures.

 

Rest of the primary is non-podded, and needs to provide mobility, assault and shooting (C:SM bikes, C:BA jumpers and C:SM/BA heavy support).

The highlighted section is not correct. It is at the end of the game turn, not player turn when this is checked. So an all reserved, half arrives on first turn army works. Unless you think Codex: Chaos Demons should be totally screwed since they must reserve everything? <_<

[Brom MKIV]

Another shout out for BAs ally SW. Rune priest, frag cannon furiosos, wolf guard/sternguard, grey hunters jumpers and death company plus long fangs and storm ravens. Whats not to like?

[Reichfaust]

Well, I think i have my chapters then. I will go for space wolves, and probably C:SM, if I choose to make this list. I'll do a thread is the SW list review forums to see what they think, and whether they feel I need the sternguard.

Thanks for all the help!

 

Allow me to bring the SW forum to you :) Here are a few random musings that you may or may not find useful;

 

I'm not sure if you're planning on going Vanilla w/Wolf allies or Wolf w/Vanilla allies--Both have merit, the former would give you a high number of strong, cost-effective troops in pods and the latter would give you the option of taking up to six dreadnoughts (!!!) in pods, which would really be a terrifying and amazing thing to behold (actually seven in pods, if you're willing to spend your allied elite slot on a wolfy dread).

 

Sternguard seem really cool, being a SW player I've never used them, but I love the sound of their special ammo. I initially agreed with Paulochromis for suggesting Lysander, but he is quite expensive; and if you are taking him primarily for the rerolls to hit, you might as well save yourself some points and take a Div. Rune Priest. However if you do take Lysander you've got a lot more melee power, so up to you.

 

Grey Hunters in pods are really good; while WG battle leaders are nice to have, I'd advocate taking 10 hunters for double special weapons on the cheap. This also leaves your SW elite slots open for Dreadnoughts or WG Terminators should you want 'em.

 

A squad of five Terminators with 4x Combi-Flamers and a Heavy Flamer is cheap and a very nasty thing to land right on your doorstep, and while SW Dreads don't come of the Ironclad variety (of which I am very jealous), they do get the nifty "Wolftooth Necklace" wargear which lets them hit on 3's in assault, which is pretty cool.

 

Thunderfires, while fantastic, don't seem to mesh well with pods seeing as they can't fire when they land, which is a bit of a shame. Best to leave the heavy gunning to the Dreads, imho.

 

If you want to drop 380 points on a single unit of drop-podding death, you could take 10 plasma-pistol gunslinging Wolf Guard. Sure, that's a ridiculous amount of points for a single unit, but it's also 20 plasma shots--That would make short work of anything short of TH/SS Termies, and even then it would probably cause them some serious hurt. Is it silly? Yes. Would I love to see it done? Hell yeah! :D

[Mr.darkness]

Thanks reichfaust, some useful stuff there.

 

To be honest, I'm not really a fan of dreads, so won't be theming my list around them, though I am not averse to including a couple if they are effective.

oh, and if I was i would use BA allied with SW, I could get 3 elite BA dreads, 3 in troops, 3 in heavy, one in SW HQ, and 1 in SW elite, so 11!! all in pods!

 

I too am not sure on lysander. If I have points left over I might go for him.

 

Not sure on WGPL either. I like having 2 CC weapons, especially as I am likely to be podding into their face, so will likely be in CC pretty soon. Also, because I am likely to be only firing my special weapons once (when I arrive), I am sort of leaning towards using them. As far as I can see, I can still use termies, as some of the pack can split, and some can stay as one.

 

 

As you read this, I am typing a list thread in the SW forum, so feel free to join the discussion there.

 

Thanks!

[tvih]

things to look at are:

(1) drop pod assault rules: C:SM/BA/SW <> C:DA/BT (former are half rounded up T1; latter are as per normal reserves)

BT drop pods arrive 50% rounded up on turn 1 too.

[Paulochromis]

BT drop pods arrive 50% rounded up on turn 1 too.

When did this change?

[tvih]

BT drop pods arrive 50% rounded up on turn 1 too.

When did this change?

It's in the FAQ, but I don't know which FAQ version changed it (wasn't the latest one though).