Cockroach Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Hey guys, I've recently been playing a guy who runs a chaos list with a Khorne Lord on a bike with the axe of blind fury and 'vets of the long war', bubbled by a unit of bikes. I'm having some serious trouble with it. For something that isnt even a special character, I feel this guy is far too overpowered. My lists are usually CC orientated but he just ploughs through anything i throw at him. He can even avoid challenges by using his biker champion instead of the Lord. Can anyone give me some pointers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Hey guys, I've recently been playing a guy who runs a chaos list with a Khorne Lord on a bike with the axe of blind fury and 'vets of the long war', bubbled by a unit of bikes. I'm having some serious trouble with it. For something that isnt even a special character, I feel this guy is far too overpowered. Well, about as overpowered as a Blood Talon Furioso appears... My lists are usually CC orientated but he just ploughs through anything i throw at him. He can even avoid challenges by using his biker champion instead of the Lord.Can anyone give me some pointers? My suggestion would be handle him the same way people handle Furiosos. Tarpit/shoot it. It's T5/W3/3+. Or you could always hard-counter him with an Allied Space Wolves Thunderwolf Lord w/ Runic Armor, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, Wolftooth Necklace, and Saga of the Warrior Born... Hilarity ensues. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 My lists are usually CC orientated I see your problem right here . If your runing a cc army and not taking mefiston [who has higher I and has a good chance to kill the lord] , then you going to have problems like that . + playing a melee centered army after hth nerfs in 6th ed isnt the most wisest thing to do anyway . ah and by the way , be glad he isnt runing a mace DP higher cost , but much harder to kill and kills anything it touches save for 5+sized terminator units . Or you could always hard-counter him with an Allied Space Wolves Thunderwolf Lord w/ Runic Armor, Frost Blade, Belt of Russ, Wolftooth Necklace, and Saga of the Warrior Born...Hilarity ensues. msn-wink.gif TH I think he would be str10 which would mean he ID a khorn lord and ap2 or not , a khorn lord should not do 3 wounds to a stormshield armed wolf lord. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickrock Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 If you're a CC there are a couple of things you can do. I don't like them, but you can do them. First is a Dreadnought. Put the Dreadnought in his face. He will glance a DC Dread on a 6 and can't touch a Fuiroso (assuming its still off of his front armor unless imobilized). The problem would be the Bike Squad you say he's with. Generally they have meltas. It could end bad for the Dreadnought. Next is to put him up against Mepheston, as Jeske said. Althought I don't agree with "A melee army needs Mepheston", he would make quick work. Hits on 3 wounds on 2 (if you activate Sword of Sanguine) AP3 that can ID if you activate the Force Sword. The "Bubble Wrap" COULD work against Mephy, but the Lord has to challange, and you will Accept, obviously. You HAVE to kill him before he kills you. Hitting on 4 wound on 4, not that great, but the fact that he has 3-9 AP2 attacks, things can get messy. Next would be a Hammernator Squad. These always deserve a priest and a Librarian. You have 5 Hammers that are hitting on 4 (With rerolls), wounding on 2 with AP2. They won't ID him (because of bike) but he will be I1 for the rest of the fight. On the attack back he is hitting on 4, wounding on 2 but you'll be able to take your 3++ as well as your FnP. If you want to shoot at him there is always the Lass / Plas options. 3 Baals with Flamestorm Cannons will just DESTROY a Biker Squad. If you're into allies there are A LOT of options, but I'm not going into those. Good luck to you! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262449 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 ..but the Lord has to challange, and you will Accept, obviously... No he doesn't, the champ can challenge and the requirements to make a challenge are fulfilled. On the point at hand, try more shooting. The best way to be combat stuff is with shooting, just like combat is great against Shooty stuff. Try to take the charge on something sacrificial and then concentrate short range firepower until he fails some saves. Chaos bikes are great but they're not invincible. At least they can't have mark of Nurgle and hang out with the lord. Although its mildly ironic that a player using the codex with mephistion is complaining about OP characters! <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Ally in some IG Vendettas/Valkyries and/or some Leman Russes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Unless you get really unlucky, Mephi eats the lord and his entire squad for breakfast. Mephi actually counters about 50% of all the chaos units, he's pretty good :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res Ipsa Loquitur Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Shoot the fighty stuff, fight the shooty stuff. Shoot the fighty stuff, fight the shooty stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 +1 to what Ushtarador said. Blood angels have the best counter to this guy of any codex and he is pretty much where I start every list I make. Mephiston. He will murder that lord and take no wounds in the process, it's a joke. He'll kill the entire bike squad as well. Mephiston is the gift that just keeps giving. Learn to play him correctly, he is not a sledge hammer he is a scalpal. My current 6th ed list with GKs has him in a storm raven allied. He is MVP most games and in my 8 games I have managed to win them all so far, he has never died, infact he has caused more wounds to himself than the enemy has to him, almost always MVP. Except for oblits, Chaos do not have counters for Mephiston, all their non special character just get mauled by him, and the two who can take him, Abaddon and Typhus (though Typhus actually still looses ona verage when you roll out the Math) are too slow to engage him and can only deny him a small section of the board. in 8 game Mephiston has Killed the following. This doesn't include denying objectives using his psychic hood, casting powers like re-roll saves on the enemy from the div table, the massive area control he gives or any other of myriad of things he has dont in these games. Game 1 - Tyranids - 2 Carnifexes 10 gaunts - 420pts wounds remaining 5 Game 2 - Chaos - That exact lord you described, 5 chaos Marines, 4 Unmarked Spawn 450+pts. Wounds remaining 4 Game 3 - Eldar Jetbike Seer Council bomb - 4 harliquins a seer council Jetbike, 4 jetbikes 200+ points. Wound remaining 4 (I rolled on divination for him this game and got him a 4 + invuln save and then the re-roll all failed saves hits and wounds power) Game 4 - Orks - 7 Nob bikers with 3 power claws, warboss on bike, Wazdakka Gutsmeck, 3 kannons 10 lootas. 800+ points. Wounds remaining 3 Game 5 - Demons (flamer screamer army) Game ended turn 3 when the other player called it. Meph had only had time to kill 2 screamers and had taken 2 wounds. Demons is one of his worst match ups though again a simple change of powers to re-roll saves was making him very useful that game. Game 6 - Grey knights - 10 strike knights - Game was called Turn 3 again Mephiston still ahd 5 wounds and was already at 240pts worth of enemy slayed. Game 7 - Necrons - Flyer Spam - He couldn't get into combat much but sat next to a few objectives which the crons couldn't get near as he would wipe a unit of troops in one assault phase if they tried. Still killed 5 warriors and a cryptec 4 wounds remaining. Game 8 - Chaos - 2 6 Man Nurgle units 280+ points - 3 wounds remaining So in every game he has been usefull if not game winning. Except for the game against the demons and the eldar he was hands down the largest contributing factor to the wins. I promise you if you elarn to play him well you will never regret it. I ahve been using him since the BA dex came out in 5th ed and I can say if you just want a purely comptitive force and you want BAs I would struggle to make a list without him. I also know he will cream that cahos lord for you every time. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3262852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.darkness Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 People above have basically got it covered. remember that if mephy is in a challenge then the other enemies cannot strike him. That means on the first turn of combat, he will kill the champion, second turn the lord, and third turn the squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3263296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 People above have basically got it covered. remember that if mephy is in a challenge then the other enemies cannot strike him. That means on the first turn of combat, he will kill the champion, second turn the lord, and third turn the squad. Can Mephiston even be challenged? He's "Type: Infantry" according to the Codex and I can't find an FAQ change that makes him a Character(and he's definitely not an Independant Character). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3263305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Single model units are always characters and can never refuse a challenge. "Character Types: Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad leaders, such as a Space Marine Veteran Sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not have a separate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices. Other characters, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels, fight as units on their own. They are either mighty, or feared enough by their own kind, that they don't take to the battlefield with other warriors. Regardless of their potency, all follow the rules for characters." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3263306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 OK, thanks for that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3263315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Np- that rule has been a thorn in my side since it applies to daemon princes. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/267869-trouble-with-chaos/#findComment-3263329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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