Musings of BAs in 6th edition

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings gents. I would like to start with a disclaimer: I am not a blood angels player, not since 3rd edition anyway. I am also not very good at getting my point across in interweb discussions so keep that in mind too. What I am is a regular opponent of blood angels, and ive always had a soft spot for the "special forces" chapter of marines. I follow blood angels as avidly as I follow my own chapters, both for your excellent discussion topics and for the elite nature of your lists.

(Edit- this thread is primarily from the standpoint of pure blood angels since allies will pretty much invalidate this entire topic)

 

Now in 6th edition I have noticed a marked change in effectiveness of certain units and some specific trends that I have found myself questioning lately, which leads me to believe BAs units need a "reclassification of purpose" or role redefinition so to speak, which is why I thought a topic on evaluating BAs units could be useful both to myself and others such as some of my friends who primarily play BAs armies. Note that I play only at 1850 or below.

 

The primary units that I feel could stand to be re-evaluated, and that I would like to see some discussion on are:

-mephiston

-dante

-RAS

-tacs

-storm ravens

 

For starters, mephiston. Is he still the face of blood angels? I ask because I have noticed a definite decrease in the effectiveness of the big guy, especially considering his hefty pts cost for no ranged presence, ap3, psychic hood nerfs, the reduction in cover saves plus the greater focus on objectives and placement, shooting in general, and basically the major changes to 6th edition. Has/should he be replaced by..Dante? (see below)

 

Troops selections, specifically assault squads. Im sure none of this is news to you guys but RAS aint what they used to be. They are still great at delivery pinpoint melta and covering ground but the lack of boltguns and loss of initiative bonus to FC has hurt these guys. Are they still more than a "one-of" in your lists, and if so should they be? Note that I am speaking of full jump squads, mechanized infantry is a whole other ballgame for BAs and one which I believe is still very alive and well. Feel free to discuss mechanized assault squads too though.

 

BA tac squads. Ya ultras do tacs better due to combat tactics, but in the context of the BAs codex and in light of the nerf to jump squads and core rules changes, are tactical squads now the backbone of BA troops? The main difference is obviously the humble bolter and heavy weapon.

 

This leads me back to HQ selection, and Dante. Is Dante now more desirable than mephiston? With the changes to RAS I believe BAs are hurting for troops options and while mephiston does bring a unique skills set, Dante brings scoring terminators. Terminators that fly no less making lack of a transport mostly a non issue. Oh and they pack melta/plasma.

 

Lastly the BA storm raven. Widely accepted as the most deadly and survivable flyer in the game (arguable if the vendetta is better). That being said, how many is sufficient and how many too many? I personally have not faced more than 1 raven at my pts level in 6th edition although 2 used to be common place in 5th (dont ask me why). I guess this last topic is more to just get an idea of your experiences fielding double ravens below 2k.

 

I look forward to any input. Cheers.

[DominicJ]

Never used mephy, so cant really comment.

 

I'm planning on Dante, for sanguinary troops mostly.

Precision strike sounds very good, but Dante is a expensive guy to throw away.

 

RAS are still jump pack troops, which means they rock at making a T4/5/6 grab for objectives

The gap between assault and tactical has closed, especially / even in vehicles

 

Ravens.

Comparing fifth and sixth edition ravens just doesnt work.

They are entirely different animals.

My views on flyers are well known, people tend to over estimate them.

Ravens are a useful tool, tank and flyer hunters without compare, but they can be minimised as a threat through clever unit placement

 

Dual Ravens at 1750 works, but you need good targets for them, if the enemy has no high value targets, or bubble wraps them, you are in trouble.

[Erasmus of Baal]

THere have already been threads discussing most (if not all) of this, so I'll summarize what I recall:

 

Mephiston is still a beast, but you need to be a touch more careful about picking his targets because he's only AP3 in melee.

 

Dante is good, but not quite as good as he was. I6 is wasted on the axe but still nice for Hit and Run; he's useful if used intelligently but easily wasted.

 

Assault squads have lost considerable value. From what I gather, they're mostly being used as sacrifices to Overwatch (follow up with the real assault in the same phase) and fast-moving objective grabbers.

 

Tactical squads gained little in truth but, yes, are a bit better relative to RAS. Not much to say.

 

Yes, Dantewing is, was, and will probably always be popular. It's a solid choice, sure, but tough to run below 2000 points.

 

Stormraven in 6th is crazy levels of awesome. From what I gather, Aegis Defense Lines with anti-air weaponry, though easy to remove or otherwise deal with, are the only reason people aren't fielding entire armies mounted in 3 Stormravens. Vendettas are only better by the usual Imperial Guard method - weight of numbers.

[Sokhar]

Mephiston is still a monster. He lost his ability to deal with 2+ save models, but most of the ones you'd encounter before had a heft invul save, so Mephiston was already not very good at dealing with them. In most every other way he got better. He doesn't have to worry about most psychic defense being able to affect his powers any. He's incredibly fast and has a great charge range. He doesn't have to worry about hidden powerfists anymore. Challenges can be used to have more control over when a combat with him ends. He lost a little bit in the change on Preferred Enemy to hit, but getting to re-roll 1's to wound has helped me plenty. Cover saves went down some, but now he's able to take Feel No Pain saves against literally anything in the game just about. And he's still a tiny model (for the monstrous creature-like stats he's packing), so you keep him alive by utilizing LoS blocking objects rather than straight cover saves anyway. A generic librarian has more utility and is cheaper, but if you have the points and don't need pure synergy, Mephiston is the choice every time.

 

Jumper Assault Marines are still alright, though they took a hit. I feel like two squads of them is a good amount to be able to have punch in close combat and durability to hold objectives. Keep them together with a Priest and they're effective. But beyond two units, you're really looking at diminishing returns. Tactical Squads got a slight bump, but I feel like every other codex does "Tactical Marines" (or equivalents) better. So after two or so Assault Squads, I look to bring in allied Troop units. Grey Hunters are amazing, Guard provide huge fire support, and Strike Squads are extremely flexible. Flavor to taste.

 

See above for Tactical Squads. I don't think they're better than Assault Squads, and if you're going to run primarily Tacs I think you're better off using a different codex. The only 'dex that doesn't have better Tactical Squads are Dark Angels--for now.

 

No, I don't think Dante is a unit of choice for HQ. Sanguinary Guard are cool but they're too few to really build around. They have no innate invul save, so to call them flying Terminators is a misnomer. Sang Guard got a boost, but not enough for me to want to build an army around. Dante doesn't have to worry about eating hidden powerfists anymore, but he gets slapped around by any decent combat character first since they (moronically) gave him a generic axe. Initiative 1 on a combat character that doesn't get Eternal Warrior is terrible. I actually liked Dante better last edition.

 

Storm Ravens, ooh boy. If there's a more improved unit from the transition between 5th and 6th, I can't think of it. These things were mediocre at best last time around, now they're in the top 3 for vehicles in my opinion. Their role changed for the most part though. Before they were largely kamikazee assault vehicles that hopefully delivered a powerful unit and then maybe survived. Now you can still perform that same role, with better odds of survival until you switch to hover. But good lord are they amazing gunships now! Being able to fire 5 weapons per turn and still be extremely survivable is just amazing. I think the ideal set-up is two Ravens. One and your opponent can either have adequate anti-flyer and deal with it, or even have sub-par anti-flyer and still regularly deal with it through luck. Its a lot harder to deal with 2 flyers without obscene luck or some true dedicated anti-flyer solutions. Nothing wrong with running 3 necessarily, but at that point you're investing a ton of points into your fire support and its only going to work in certain lists. But a staple of many 5th ed BA lists were 3 Auto-Las Predators which are roughly equivalent to the cost of running 2 Storm Ravens, so doesn't really compromise your ability to put together competitive supporting pieces around them.

[TheSauce]

I've had some similar experiences with my BA Army:

 

Mephiston - is a beast. The only way he could be better would be to give him AP2, but otherwise nothing can really touch him in combat. He won't do well against terminator ICs, but against almost everything else he's hitting on 3+ (re-rolling 1s), wounding on 2+ (re-rolling 1s) and almost always causing ID. That's with his powers, of course. Not only that, but your opponent knows (if he doesn't know, tell him) what a beast Mephy can be, and so will have to respond to the threat. That can be as good an outcome as any, as Mephiston can force your opponent into a corner with his beastly-ness, allowing your other elements to get into better position to win you the game.

 

RAS/Tacs - RAS are good, and with attached priest/libby they can be a CC force with 3 power weapons (Sarge/Priest/Libby), but they're not as good as I want them to be. Tacs, however, are pretty excellent. Cheap, good for scoring your backfield/midfield objectives (which there are a lot of in 6th), and then can put some decent hurt on from range. I like to combat squad my assault squads into a melta delivery team and a CC team to babysit the tacs, giving them some close support and providing FNP/Libby buffs.

 

Sanguinary Guard - Haven't played with them enough to give a good opinion yet, but the models look awesome so they'll find their way onto the field sometime. The problem for me is that each bad roll costs too many points, and they lose their combat potency very quickly if you're not careful.

 

Stormravens - Not totally OP. Which is good because your opponent won't cry when you bring 2 to the table. He will cry when they show up and blast everything off the table. If you can afford it (thanks GW for making them super expensive), bring 2 with a aegis line w/Comms relay. The Aegis will provide nice cover for whomever is manning the comms, which you'll need with a lot of your army off the board. That said, Stormravens bring an amazing amount of hurt to the table against any target. Hurricane bolter sponsons are a must, as they're great against infantry (inside 12" you get 6 TL shots from each), and after your missiles are gone they need the extra firepower. Load them up with something that can survive a crash (SS Termies, Dreads) and they can bring even more pain the turn after they arrive.

 

Right now my army must-haves are a Tac Squad, Assault Squad, Priest, and Libby. As points go up I add the Stormravens, Dreadnoughts, Devastators (Awesome with libby re-rolls), Mephy, Baals and Attack Bikes.

[Deschenus Maximus]

You can combine Tacs, RAS and Ravens quite effectively, in my experience:

 

Libby w/ Force Axe, Shield & Rage

2 x Priests

2 x 10 ASM w/ 2 meltas

2 x Razorbacks w/ twin plas/las turret

2 x 10 Tacs w/ plasma gun & plasma cannon

2 x Storm Ravens

 

The ASM go in the Ravens with the Priests, the Tacs combat squad - one half steal the Razors, the other sit on objectives and pew pew. That's a solid core for a 2k list. You have another 500 pts to spend on other goodies.