Mephiston do's and don't

[The Milkman Of Baal]

Hey guys, I've had a search of this forum and haven't found a solid user guide for meph, I thought maybe I could get some advice. I've used him a couple of times and to be honest he's just a massive bullet magnet even when I put him in a raven, I know in the 6th edition you have to be super careful who you pitch him against power fist and thunder hammer termis for instance. Just don't want to use him anymore coz he's never worth the points. Cheers and by the way I love this forum the members are mint and some of the minis I've seen in here are jaw dropping.

[TheSauce]

I think you need to reconsider what you're using Mephiston for. He's a massive beatstick and everybody knows it. So everything on the board is going to be pointed at him. Which means it's not pointed at your other stuff, which can be just as deadly. That said, here are some tips I have learned from playing him:

 

1) He's a tiny model, so you should be able to jump + run (remember fleet for the reroll) behind cover for LOS-blocking.

2) He's T6, so a priest nearby means he gets FNP on every wound.

3) Use his mobility (12" move with wings + fleet) to only engage what he can kill. Stay away from 2+ armor and you should be pretty happy.

4) If you do get into combat with some hammers/fists, remember that he's a character and can place hits on a to-hit roll of 6. So with a lucky roll you can snipe those hidden fists.

5) Mephy is a challenge beast against anything without a 2+ save. Since he's a single model unit he can't decline, so you'll be fighting them often. And remember that overkill wounds from a challenge count towards combat resolution - overkill a chaos champion by 4 and watch those vile traitors get cut down by I7 sweeping advance.

[StJude]

It's hard to do a hard and fast list of do's and don'ts.

Sometimes, the situation dictates you toss all the rules out of the window. That said, here are some guidelines

 

1.) Avoid Ravens - That's 450points or more off the table for who knows how long. Even if you come in Turn two, you either have to hover and only move six inches to assault out of, or you wait until turn three to get into position and assault.

2.) Get Mephy in hth as quickly as you can. Ideally, picking units that will take two assault phases to kill.

3.) He runs best in hybrid or mech armies were he can hide behind vehicles to avoid being shot at.

4.) Remember that Mephy can precision strike, use this to assign wounds where YOU want in a squad.

5.) Don't forget Transfixing Glare when fighting characters, it means not having to roll for psychic powers (and possibly a perils of the warp).

6.) A priest nearby boosts Mephy's survivability. Keep one within 6"

7.) Mephy is not fearless, he can go to ground if you need a last ditch attempt to get a cover save or improve a cover save.

8.) Since he is NOT an Independent character, abilities that target ICs do not work on him. For example, Dante's curse and others.

9.) Mephy shines against multi-wound units with no eternal warrior.

10.) He generates 3 warp charges an assault phase, you can often use your force weapon in the opponents assault phase to kill opponents if you are not double their toughness.

11.) There is the obvious "Avoid enemies with AP2 based weapons and 2+ saves" Be careful with choosing targets that they are not bait and/or tarpits to get their anti-mephy unit into the assault.

 

I am sure others can add more, but that is a rough guideline on using him.

[TheHarrower]

And remember that overkill wounds from a challenge count towards combat resolution - overkill a chaos champion by 4 and watch those vile traitors get cut down by I7 sweeping advance.

 

This isn't right and was FAQ'd:

 

Q: If a character is removed from play as a casualty after fighting a challenge, are any excess unsaved Wounds counted when determining assault results? (p65)

A: No – only the Wounds actually suffered in the challenge count.

All of the other advice here is solid. Meph's presence is really important. He'll make your opponent change what he's doing and disrupt his plans. That's his biggest strength and of course he'll trash almost anything in close combat.

[knife&fork]

He's also good at tanking single high strength hits, like a demolisher blast. Losing a single wound is no biggie compared to what a large S10 AP2 blast can do to any other unit in our codex.

 

Flipping tanks and eating troops is where he'll do the most damage.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

Ah nice one spot on guys cheers. Going to using him in the near future we're doing a campaign which follows Calistarius before he turns then when he does ending in becoming The Lord of death (my friends written an awesome little story for the build up) so I'll def take your advice on board! :D

[Crynn]

I posted this in a nother thread but thought it was relevant here.

 

"+1 to what Ushtarador said. Blood angels have the best counter to this guy of any codex and he is pretty much where I start every list I make. Mephiston. He will murder that lord and take no wounds in the process, it's a joke. He'll kill the entire bike squad as well. Mephiston is the gift that just keeps giving. Learn to play him correctly, he is not a sledge hammer he is a scalpal. My current 6th ed list with GKs has him in a storm raven allied. He is MVP most games and in my 8 games I have managed to win them all so far, he has never died, infact he has caused more wounds to himself than the enemy has to him, almost always MVP.

 

Except for oblits, Chaos do not have counters for Mephiston, all their non special character just get mauled by him, and the two who can take him, Abaddon and Typhus (though Typhus actually still looses ona verage when you roll out the Math) are too slow to engage him and can only deny him a small section of the board.

 

in 8 game Mephiston has Killed the following. This doesn't include denying objectives using his psychic hood, casting powers like re-roll saves on the enemy from the div table, the massive area control he gives or any other of myriad of things he has dont in these games.

 

Game 1 - Tyranids - 2 Carnifexes 10 gaunts - 420pts wounds remaining 5

Game 2 - Chaos - That exact lord you described, 5 chaos Marines, 4 Unmarked Spawn 450+pts. Wounds remaining 4

Game 3 - Eldar Jetbike Seer Council bomb - 4 harliquins a seer council Jetbike, 4 jetbikes 200+ points. Wound remaining 4 (I rolled on divination for him this game and got him a 4 + invuln save and then the re-roll all failed saves hits and wounds power)

Game 4 - Orks - 7 Nob bikers with 3 power claws, warboss on bike, Wazdakka Gutsmeck, 3 kannons 10 lootas. 800+ points. Wounds remaining 3

Game 5 - Demons (flamer screamer army) Game ended turn 3 when the other player called it. Meph had only had time to kill 2 screamers and had taken 2 wounds. Demons is one of his worst match ups though again a simple change of powers to re-roll saves was making him very useful that game.

Game 6 - Grey knights - 10 strike knights - Game was called Turn 3 again Mephiston still ahd 5 wounds and was already at 240pts worth of enemy slayed.

Game 7 - Necrons - Flyer Spam - He couldn't get into combat much but sat next to a few objectives which the crons couldn't get near as he would wipe a unit of troops in one assault phase if they tried. Still killed 5 warriors and a cryptec 4 wounds remaining.

Game 8 - Chaos - 2 6 Man Nurgle units 280+ points - 3 wounds remaining

 

So in every game he has been usefull if not game winning. Except for the game against the demons and the eldar he was hands down the largest contributing factor to the wins. I promise you if you elarn to play him well you will never regret it. I ahve been using him since the BA dex came out in 5th ed and I can say if you just want a purely comptitive force and you want BAs I would struggle to make a list without him. I also know he will cream that cahos lord for you every time.

 

Regards,

Crynn "

 

So that gives you an idea of how mental this guy is. In my mind he is the second best HQ behind Coteaz. I cannot emphasize the point of him not being a hammer, he is a scalpal. you do not have to keep him in combat every turn, sometimes simply keeping him alive and out of LOS and using him for area denial will win you games, it has won me many. I lose meph Perhaps 1/5 games I play him and I'd say 4/5 he would make over his points cost worth not that this is always the best measure of a good unit. He is a character that you need to play 20+ games with to truely understand his potetential. People who say other wise have only used him as a beat stick and don't know how to adapt him to other roles. There are some armies that flat out cannot deal with him.

 

Anyway my personal tactic is finding combats where he will generally take no more than 1 wound generally none, it is very easy to do using characters, this means turn 5 and 6 he's still running around near objectives and scoring units when the enemy doesn't have the firepower to remove him, then he jsut cleans up a scoring unit each turn.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Drunken Angel]

All good advice the biggest pain I have had for Mephiston is Eldar who force him to roll 3D6 for psychic powers and gives him perils on 12+ total. If you do encounter Eldar make killing the farseer a priority. Mephiston is point for point the best investment in our codex, as noted keep him away from AV2 nasties let him slaughter troops and throw tanks around the board all day.

[Jolemai]

Characters (Independant or otherwise) can make precision strikes in combat?!?! :( -_- :o

[knife&fork]

All good advice the biggest pain I have had for Mephiston is Eldar who force him to roll 3D6 for psychic powers and gives him perils on 12+ total. If you do encounter Eldar make killing the farseer a priority. Mephiston is point for point the best investment in our codex, as noted keep him away from AV2 nasties let him slaughter troops and throw tanks around the board all day.

 

You only suffer a perils on double 1 or double 6. It's just more likely to happen on 3D6.

[Morticon]

All good advice the biggest pain I have had for Mephiston is Eldar who force him to roll 3D6 for psychic powers and gives him perils on 12+ total. If you do encounter Eldar make killing the farseer a priority. Mephiston is point for point the best investment in our codex, as noted keep him away from AV2 nasties let him slaughter troops and throw tanks around the board all day.

 

You only suffer a perils on double 1 or double 6. It's just more likely to happen on 3D6.

 

Thats for Shadow in the Warp. For Eldar its anything 12+ on 3d6 added.

[Midnightmare]

I find he is more of a scalpel in the 6th than the Sledge Hammer he was in the 5th, you just have to pick your targets carefully. That said I find he is actually better as long as you do this with his own 2+ save combined with the nerf to psychic defence (his codex powers rule against most opponents),challenges are his best friend. Then mop up the squad :)

 

And fnp on T6 is awesome!

 

For Eldar its anything 12+ on 3d6 added.

And its truly horrible! Hit the Farseer before using any powers, and I have used him in a Raven in the past against these tricksy xeno's with good effect.

[Morollan]

All good advice the biggest pain I have had for Mephiston is Eldar who force him to roll 3D6 for psychic powers and gives him perils on 12+ total. If you do encounter Eldar make killing the farseer a priority. Mephiston is point for point the best investment in our codex, as noted keep him away from AV2 nasties let him slaughter troops and throw tanks around the board all day.

 

You only suffer a perils on double 1 or double 6. It's just more likely to happen on 3D6.

 

No, Runes of Witnessing make you take psychic tests on 3d6 and perils occur on any roll of 12+

 

One of my opponents uses Chaos and often takes several psykers of one form or another. The last two games I played against him I used an allied SW contingent with Njal Stormcaller in one battle (nullify any psychic power cast within 24" on a 3+) and an allied Farseer with my Dark Eldar in the other. He managed one successful psychic power in total for both games!

[Morticon]

Just gonna echo what everyone has said here.

 

One of the tricks to using mephy is knowing what he can take and what he cant take.

 

I dont believe in hiding him entirely. I want him out in the open if he will draw fire away from my vehicles. It all depends on how much AP2 and high S stuff there is. If it's limited, then hes out in the open. If its more prevalent, then I'll have him in LOS of a few of those but in cover.

 

DONT:

 

Engage in things that do ID, unless you are likely to kill it first.

Engage with 2+ armour save units or 3++ saves that can kill meph.

Engage with horde (20+ model) units (you will probs live, but its just a waste.

Allow yourself to be countered by a unit that can kill him.

 

DO:

 

Take it easy with meph.

Go for MEq type targets.

Go for tough vehicles,

 

 

just a few for now.

[knife&fork]

Runes of Witnessing mistake

 

My bad, I've never even bothered rolling a psychic test before killing the farseer :yes:

[Chaplain Admetus]

I used to really annoy Eldar players by continually sneaking powers through on 3d6, and then myself by perils-ing after the space-elf causing the problems was already dead. To be fair, I'd still risk powers against Eldar every so often (probably just wings, as they're squishy enough already you don't need the others) - stats say you're equally likely to roll 10 or 11 as the most common roll (like 7 for 2d6), so you're 50/50 to get the power, but better than 50% odds to not perils. Mephy also has enough wounds to be able to take a perils or 2, especially if you've got a priest lurking nearby. I've always found that Eldar do more damage by discouraging use of psychic powers than they do by actually inflicting perils with those smegging runes. Don't let them bully you into submission, go for it anyway - you've got an exactly even shot of getting the power, and I can guarantee it'll catch players on the hop because a lot of people will make their plans assuming you won't risk the danger of casting, and you can throw a spanner into the works. “A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.” - Douglas Adams.

 

@Jolemai: Yes, characters can indeed make precision strikes in combat. Its awesome. So many people miss that aspect because characters normally end up in challenges instead. Watch as they smirk knowing they have a hidden fist ready to swing, and then watch it fade as you roll a 6 and Mephy lops the arm off :o.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

Right, unfortunately one of my main enemy's is a grey knights player who uses draigo and spams terminators/paladins, so I don't think meph would be a good choice there?

[Xenith]

Right, unfortunately one of my main enemy's is a grey knights player who uses draigo and spams terminators/paladins, so I don't think meph would be a good choice there?

 

Yes, an all termie army is the worst match up for Mephy. Played a deathwing army at 2k a couple of weeks ago, Meph got pulped in combat after enduring all their shooting turn 2.

 

The sword just couldnt get through the 2+.

[Crynn]

And this is where you have to learn to be creative with meph. There is a plus side to facing draigo wing and deathwing armies, they are really bad armies. I took a paladin list to the Australasian Team Championship in 2011 in 5th Ed and got first place or mace battle points, I love me some pallies. Now, in 6th they are horrible, no wound allocation, there weapons turning into mainly ap3 also only holding 1 objective has really made them a rather average choice.

 

So ask yourself, does your opponent have dreads? You could use meph to run around the pallies and kill all their heavy support and use other units to kill pallies, meph is too fast and tough for the pallies to kill, their firepower is very ineffective and essentially wasted on him as is most grey knight shooting. I the guys list is all terminators and paladins then it is a very static army and you will learn to beat just because it leaves itself with many weaknesses. Meph can be used to buff your army, changes his powers to divination. Re-roll to hit can be cast on any of your units to help them kill those pallies, if you get re-roll armour saves cast that on them! You could roll I believe it's telepathy that can give one of your units stealth and shrouding plus enemies strike at ws 1 that owner is mental, there is a power similar to ranges psychotrokes and many other things you can do.

 

He is never useless you just have to think outside the box with him if this happens, the armies that are all 2+ are generally bad armies so you shouldn't worry about facing them.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Brother Maikel]

Right, unfortunately one of my main enemy's is a grey knights player who uses draigo and spams terminators/paladins, so I don't think meph would be a good choice there?

 

Yes, an all termie army is the worst match up for Mephy. Played a deathwing army at 2k a couple of weeks ago, Meph got pulped in combat after enduring all their shooting turn 2.

 

The sword just couldnt get through the 2+.

 

Against Draigowing or GK TDA spam Mephy loses a fair bit but isn't completely useless. If your opponent brings anything that isn't in TDA (henchmen, psyfleman dreads, etc) then you should have the mobility to avoid the TDA and get to the target model, or at the very least pin/kite a TDA unit in the backfield. If the entire army has a 2+ Armour save then you can swap powers for Div, Biomancy and/or Telepathy: Mephy can still act as a reasonably good counter-charge unit while supporting the rest of your army through blessings and maledictions.

[Crynn]

Right, unfortunately one of my main enemy's is a grey knights player who uses draigo and spams terminators/paladins, so I don't think meph would be a good choice there?

 

Yes, an all termie army is the worst match up for Mephy. Played a deathwing army at 2k a couple of weeks ago, Meph got pulped in combat after enduring all their shooting turn 2.

 

The sword just couldnt get through the 2+.

 

Against Draigowing or GK TDA spam Mephy loses a fair bit but isn't completely useless. If your opponent brings anything that isn't in TDA (henchmen, psyfleman dreads, etc) then you should have the mobility to avoid the TDA and get to the target model, or at the very least pin/kite a TDA unit in the backfield. If the entire army has a 2+ Armour save then you can swap powers for Div, Biomancy and/or Telepathy: Mephy can still act as a reasonably good counter-charge unit while supporting the rest of your army through blessings and maledictions.

 

+1 This guy, got it in 1.

[The Milkman Of Baal]

Top tip there, never occurred to me to make him a buffer rather then a big Killy death kill thing.

[Crynn]

Sometimes he can do both. Even with power exchanging he is st6 with a force weapon at WS and I 7, 5 attacks fleet and generally will get re-rolls to hit and to wound against an independant character. I change his power regularly sometimes divination, sometimes biomancy. I once had Meph runninging around with a 4+ invuln and re-roll all saves hits and wounds. My opponent didn't even bother trying to kil him it would ahve taken thousands of bolter shots to take him down and almost 50 plasma gun shots to kil him! Sometimes you won't need Mephs actual powers and swapping them out can be a very good idea against some armies. rolls on bio mancy can him a shooting attack that gives him wounds back or gives him regeneration and FnP or worse toughness and strength 7-9 and eternal warrior!

 

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Morollan]

Based on last night's game:

 

Don't put him in a Stormraven that doesn't turn up until Turn 4 of a 5 turn game...

[The Milkman Of Baal]

So stick him a rhino or razor then if he's using other powers?